July 21, 2011 at 5:38 pm
I don't think it came across that way. Then again must everything is taken from your own perception.
Ir is very easy to confuse truth with perception and vice-cersa. One of my favorite quotes on this is by author John Moore: "Your opinion is your opinion, your perception is your perception--but do not confuse them with 'facts' or 'truth'. " Not everything taken or said in in life is always perception, many things just are. For example, we are all going to die, that is not perception, that is reality. Perception and reality are sometimes confused, and vice-versa. I have found generally though that this tends to get more clarified as one gets older:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 21, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Post removed.
For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
For better answers on performance questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/
July 22, 2011 at 6:10 am
TravisDBA (7/22/2011)
bopeavy
I don't think it came across that way. Then again must everything is taken from your own perception.Ir is very easy to confuse truth with perception and vice-cersa. One of my favorite quotes on this is by author John Moore: "Your opinion is your opinion, your perception is your perception--but do not confuse them with 'facts' or 'truth'. " Not everything taken or said in in life is always perception, many things just are. For example, we are all going to die, that is not perception, that is reality. Perception and reality are sometimes confused, and vice-versa. I have found generally though that this tends to get more clarified as one gets older
You know it seems these days truth is a funny thing..I do not think there is any confusion at all. Think about it lets take a color say Blue. Now must of us see that color and relate it as Blue and that is the truth, but on the other hand if you are color blind it is no longer a truth because you can not see this so called blue color. So that throws out there what is really true and what is not true. I think that you will find that what seems to be the truth must of the time will actually be perception. Remember truth is only true when it can not be proven wrong!
July 22, 2011 at 7:12 am
bopeavy (7/22/2011)
TravisDBA (7/22/2011)
bopeavy
I don't think it came across that way. Then again must everything is taken from your own perception.Ir is very easy to confuse truth with perception and vice-cersa. One of my favorite quotes on this is by author John Moore: "Your opinion is your opinion, your perception is your perception--but do not confuse them with 'facts' or 'truth'. " Not everything taken or said in in life is always perception, many things just are. For example, we are all going to die, that is not perception, that is reality. Perception and reality are sometimes confused, and vice-versa. I have found generally though that this tends to get more clarified as one gets older
You know it seems these days truth is a funny thing..I do not think there is any confusion at all. Think about it lets take a color say Blue. Now must of us see that color and relate it as Blue and that is the truth, but on the other hand if you are color blind it is no longer a truth because you can not see this so called blue color. So that throws out there what is really true and what is not true. I think that you will find that what seems to be the truth must of the time will actually be perception. Remember truth is only true when it can not be proven wrong!
Watch out! Calling it "blue" is simply a perception association.
We see someone point at a lake and make a certain set of sounds. We see them point at the sky and make the same sounds. Over time, we associate the visual perception of sky-color and lake-color with that set of sounds. There's no objective proof that what I mean by "blue" and what you mean by "blue" are the same thing.
Any perceptic value is subjective. That's been a "recognized truth" for thousands of years. Doesn't need to go to color blind (which is usually a problem with red and green, not blue, anyway).
All of reality is subjective. Take a look into the concept of Plato's Cave if you disagree, and then realize our minds are limited in their experience of the "objective universe" to neural signals stimulated by electromagnetic phenomena (all of our perceptions are electromagnetic, not just vision).
Truth isn't a "funny thing these days". Truth has always been a funny thing, partially because nobody has ever actually been able to define it as an objective phenomenon, because we are physically incapable of determining what "objective reality" actually is.
(Yes, I enjoy this subject far too much.)
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 22, 2011 at 9:46 am
GSquared (7/22/2011)
Watch out! Calling it "blue" is simply a perception association.
Ah! point well taken!
We see someone point at a lake and make a certain set of sounds. We see them point at the sky and make the same sounds. Over time, we associate the visual perception of sky-color and lake-color with that set of sounds. There's no objective proof that what I mean by "blue" and what you mean by "blue" are the same thing.
Exactly! Goes back to the question if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it really make a sound?
P.S. A recording device would technically put you there!
Any perceptic value is subjective. That's been a "recognized truth" for thousands of years. Doesn't need to go to color blind (which is usually a problem with red and green, not blue, anyway).
Another point well taken.(which actually some how goes back to black and white the root colors).
All of reality is subjective. Take a look into the concept of Plato's Cave if you disagree, and then realize our minds are limited in their experience of the "objective universe" to neural signals stimulated by electromagnetic phenomena (all of our perceptions are electromagnetic, not just vision).
Oh, Yes Plato's Cave that is exactly along the lines of what I was talking about. Oh and by the way have the been able to define that "objective universe" Yet? Then on top of that is the electromagnetic phenomena your speaking of is this on a 2d level or 3d level or etc....
Truth isn't a "funny thing these days". Truth has always been a funny thing, partially because nobody has ever actually been able to define it as an objective phenomenon, because we are physically incapable of determining what "objective reality" actually is.
This is so true I was driving a point as youo know! Besides the "objective reality" is different depending on the dimension in which you excist.
(Yes, I enjoy this subject far too much.)
As you can tell so do I. Dare to go on?:w00t:
July 22, 2011 at 2:08 pm
I still think perception and truth are often confused at times. People see what they want to see and what people want to see never has anything to do with the truth. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 22, 2011 at 2:21 pm
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?
I wouldn't assume that the Indians that replaced them aren't complete dweebs, too.
So your real question should be: why is the software industry 95% dweebs?
But then again, I don't think its 95%. I think its just 95% of those looking for work. And then that becomes a factor of the best people being unavailable and in high demand, and a lot of other people managing to cobble together enough qualification that they can call themselves programmers.
July 25, 2011 at 6:26 am
Nevyn (7/22/2011)
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
What I can't understand is: If there are so many of these talented American programmers who have been replaced by offshore contractors, why are 95% of the programmers we interview complete dweebs? Where are all these unemployed experienced IT professionals hiding?I wouldn't assume that the Indians that replaced them aren't complete dweebs, too.
So your real question should be: why is the software industry 95% dweebs?
But then again, I don't think its 95%. I think its just 95% of those looking for work. And then that becomes a factor of the best people being unavailable and in high demand, and a lot of other people managing to cobble together enough qualification that they can call themselves programmers.
I don't think it's anything wrong with the people.
I think "software engineering" is such a wild variable that it takes an exceptional person to do well with it. BUT, keep this in mind, "bridge engineering" and "house architecture" are the same way.
At a guess, 95% of house architects can plan out something "commodity", but would be stymied by anything with any serious level of customization needed, beyond the "tab A in slot B" level of design. Want a 3-bed, 2-bath, 2-car-garage house? They can design it for you. Want something designed with "total household integration", and most will balk. A few, obviously much more expensive (or so enthusiastic for the project they'll work for nearly nothing just for the fun of it), will be able to do it for you. An even smaller number will be able to do it right for you.
In the same way, I think most programmers/software engineers, are completely capable of building a simple web application with a simple database behind it. But you want the kind of heavy-duty customization most businesses demand, and you're talking about a small percentage being able to do that, and an even smaller percentage being able to do it right.
Has nothing to do with nationality, etc. There can only be so many DaVinci's per generation.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 25, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Has nothing to do with nationality, etc. There can only be so many DaVinci's per generation.
It does when you have to communicate with others, and strong dialects affect that communication, Trust me, from experience with this, it does. No one works in a vacuum nowadays. Even a modern day Leonardo DaVinci.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 25, 2011 at 6:51 pm
TravisDBA (7/25/2011)
Has nothing to do with nationality, etc. There can only be so many DaVinci's per generation.
It does when you have to communicate with others, and strong dialects affect that communication, Trust me, from experience with this, it does. No one works in a vacuum nowadays. Even a modern day Leonardo DaVinci.:-D
Under most circumstances I've found IM (pick your poison) to be an amazingly effective tool to deal with that... in the middle of the phone call where it's just me and the guy I'm IM'ing.
Can't say that will always work, but in the few cases where the accents were so powerful it interfered with communication, we found other ways to make it work, almost always ending up involving the written word. Though, in one case, we did have a 'translator', who spoke both languages so could translate what I wasn't understanding.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
July 26, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Craig Farrell (7/25/2011)
TravisDBA (7/25/2011)
Has nothing to do with nationality, etc. There can only be so many DaVinci's per generation.
It does when you have to communicate with others, and strong dialects affect that communication, Trust me, from experience with this, it does. No one works in a vacuum nowadays. Even a modern day Leonardo DaVinci.:-D
Under most circumstances I've found IM (pick your poison) to be an amazingly effective tool to deal with that... in the middle of the phone call where it's just me and the guy I'm IM'ing.
Can't say that will always work, but in the few cases where the accents were so powerful it interfered with communication, we found other ways to make it work, almost always ending up involving the written word. Though, in one case, we did have a 'translator', who spoke both languages so could translate what I wasn't understanding.
IMs are not practical when departments are conferring with multiple Indian developers over a conference call or speaking to them in person when they are on site occasionally. Nor is hiring a translator just for things like that. I could see my bosses face now requesting we bring in a translator for this. We would be laughed out of the room. :w00t:
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 26, 2011 at 9:28 pm
I've had similar experiences with outsourcing overseas.
Even people who all nominally spoke "English" had terrible problems communicating. First time I was told a table had "many lahks of rows" (I may have misspelled that), I thought they meant the table was lacking in rows or something. Created a good bit of confusion that way. Written or spoken, wouldn't have helped.
My favorite on that, though, is still some installation instructions I once got for a SCSI hard drive, which started out with, "Please to be inserting tab on pins 5 6". This from a country where English is the predominant language. It's not "wrong", but it sure was alien to these American eyes!
Most company owners/managers won't get that "English" is actually a set of just barely recognizable languages, not just one. Easiest way to explain it to them is to switch to "Valley Speak" (I was born in California, so I'm allowed to). That's not even from a different country, much less a different continent!
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 27, 2011 at 1:54 am
GSquared (7/26/2011)
Most company owners/managers won't get that "English" is actually a set of just barely recognizable languages, not just one. Easiest way to explain it to them is to switch to "Valley Speak" (I was born in California, so I'm allowed to). That's not even from a different country, much less a different continent!
Or have them go to Scotland. I'm an American that lived there for 3 years and I can tell you that dialect is harder to understand than the Indian one.
July 27, 2011 at 6:47 pm
cengland0 (7/27/2011)
GSquared (7/26/2011)
Most company owners/managers won't get that "English" is actually a set of just barely recognizable languages, not just one. Easiest way to explain it to them is to switch to "Valley Speak" (I was born in California, so I'm allowed to). That's not even from a different country, much less a different continent!Or have them go to Scotland. I'm an American that lived there for 3 years and I can tell you that dialect is harder to understand than the Indian one.
The point is, that clear communication is crucial in this business. Without it the business suffers ultimately. It's not a matter of being anti-ethnic, which some people seem to automatically read into this. It's simply a matter of clearly communicating in a high-tech environment when millions of dollars of revenue are ultimately at stake. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects fail or have to be totally retooled primarily because of the lack of this important variable.. In the illustrious words of George Bernard Shaw: "The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that is has occurred":-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 28, 2011 at 6:13 am
TravisDBA (7/27/2011)
cengland0 (7/27/2011)
GSquared (7/26/2011)
Most company owners/managers won't get that "English" is actually a set of just barely recognizable languages, not just one. Easiest way to explain it to them is to switch to "Valley Speak" (I was born in California, so I'm allowed to). That's not even from a different country, much less a different continent!Or have them go to Scotland. I'm an American that lived there for 3 years and I can tell you that dialect is harder to understand than the Indian one.
The point is, that clear communication is crucial in this business. Without it the business suffers ultimately. It's not a matter of being anti-ethnic, which some people seem to automatically read into this. It's simply a matter of clearly communicating in a high-tech environment when millions of dollars of revenue are ultimately at stake. I can't tell you how many times I have seen projects fail or have to be totally retooled primarily because of the lack of this important variable.. In the illustrious words of George Bernard Shaw: "The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that is has occurred":-D
Yep.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 238 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply