June 10, 2013 at 10:36 am
jcrawf02 (6/10/2013)
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
After visiting TechEd, I'm more and more convinced, the damn is going to break and we'll see tons of people using Azure, or, Microsoft is going to fold up and go away. There no longer feels like the possibility of a middle ground. They're just too committed to it. As such, I'm going to keep going with my pursuit of Azure knowledge, but I can't see a lot of people doing the same thing.What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?
The emphasis is on a hybrid approach. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge that not everyone or everything can go to Azure. But they sure seem to be assuming a lot more will be going there than appears to be at present.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
June 10, 2013 at 10:37 am
Eric M Russell (6/10/2013)
Oh, those of us who just finished our 2012 certifications are looking forward to this.
And I only finished updating three different books last year. I get to start that again. Yay!
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
June 10, 2013 at 11:12 am
chrisn-585491 (6/10/2013)
People reject public "clouds" for very good reasons.
You forgot some. Some people reject this. Lots don't. I suspect a majority of companies/situations are not using cloud services, but that will change over time. Will it ever my a majority? No idea.
There are good reasons to reject the cloud, but there isn't a blanket reason to say yes or no.
As for the rapid re-versions (cha-ching!) in the MS product line: The ones that aren't fully committed to the MS stack, will find alternatives if they can afford to switch. There's a whole new generation of developers with OSS that are much more aggressive in pursuing clients.
Only natural as database products mature, and the alternatives meet some minimum bar. If we get more OSS products that work with .NET easily, especially things like LINQ/EF, I suspect we'll see more people migrate away. Overall, it's healthy to have choice in ecosystems.
Most companies are committed to the MS stack and can't convert due to years of legacy code, processes, training etc... Redmond can lead them onwards forcing changes year after year, even if it doesn't make business sense.
Basically it's a bow toward Mecca moment...
As for Azure leading the "box" version of the software, they have a lot of issues to fix in Azure before the veteran DBAs and developers outside of the "cloud" hype zone trust Azure.
I'm not sure this is true. What seems to be happening is that less and less (%-wise) installations are upgrading to new versions quickly. Instead it's a slow migration, with some new instances taking the latest version, but older instances being in use. There are still lots of SQL 2000 instances out there, on a 13 year old product.
I suspect what we'll see is people truly pushing their platform pieces (OS/database) to a 10+ year lifetime. With the maturity of the products, it's hard to say that SQL 2005/2008 won't cut it for the majority of your needs. There may be places you want newer things, but overall, for an RDBMS platform, those work great. My guess is that in 2020, we'll still see some 2005, lots of 2008/2008R2 installations out there and they will out number the 2012/2014/2016/2018 installations.
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June 10, 2013 at 12:02 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
jcrawf02 (6/10/2013)
Grant Fritchey (6/10/2013)
After visiting TechEd, I'm more and more convinced, the damn is going to break and we'll see tons of people using Azure, or, Microsoft is going to fold up and go away. There no longer feels like the possibility of a middle ground. They're just too committed to it. As such, I'm going to keep going with my pursuit of Azure knowledge, but I can't see a lot of people doing the same thing.What do you think is going to happen to businesses that feel they can't commit to the cloud for privacy reasons? Is there a data model for them at Microsoft, or are they going to have to rely on outdated product support for a while and then switch to another vendor entirely?
The emphasis is on a hybrid approach. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge that not everyone or everything can go to Azure. But they sure seem to be assuming a lot more will be going there than appears to be at present.
Hybrid approach has its pitfalls, and the first of those is price. Per-kb cost of transferring data from Azure to your local cloud or server is atrocious. MSFT apparently wants you to upload all your data - which is relatively cheap - and keep it there, including transforms from transactional to data mart to cubes and download only aggregated info. Of course if there is a problem with Azure access, you are screwed.
June 10, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Hybrid approach has its pitfalls, and the first of those is price. Per-kb cost of transferring data from Azure to your local cloud or server is atrocious. MSFT apparently wants you to upload all your data - which is relatively cheap - and keep it there, including transforms from transactional to data mart to cubes and download only aggregated info. Of course if there is a problem with Azure access, you are screwed.
Yes, you get nickeled and dimed to death on hosted Azure. It's amazing that one of Buck Woody's Azure posts is how to minimize this process. Reminds me of the tricks we used to pull to get the work done within budget in the good ole mainframe days.
I just realized that Microsoft truly has become IBM and had a flashback to 1987!
June 11, 2013 at 6:40 am
jfogel (6/10/2013)
Maybe Windows 95 was a good name for a product at the time but other than that I'm no fan of using a year as part of a name. As far as the cloud goes, I have no interest in keeping my data there.
I would agree. Using the name encourages a product to feel old before its time, however, YYYY RN is a subverted combination of the year and the version number conventions.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
June 11, 2013 at 6:49 am
I think that what we will see is that a lot of in-house applications as well as products will find themselves hosted and perhaps now the technological framework is coming onto place. Azure, HTML5 and smart devices.
Perhaps the death of WinForms is more than the passing of a reworked old technology but more the true passing of the client\server age. Maybe we are moving into an age of maturing distributed solutions. (I know it sounds like marketing mush but maybe, just maybe, I am right [Note to self: steady on there Gaz!!!]).
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
June 11, 2013 at 7:47 am
Gary Varga (6/11/2013)
I think that what we will see is that a lot of in-house applications as well as products will find themselves hosted and perhaps now the technological framework is coming onto place. Azure, HTML5 and smart devices.Perhaps the death of WinForms is more than the passing of a reworked old technology but more the true passing of the client\server age. Maybe we are moving into an age of maturing distributed solutions. (I know it sounds like marketing mush but maybe, just maybe, I am right [Note to self: steady on there Gaz!!!]).
Yeah man, breathe. In through the nose... out through the mouth... Good. Feeling better? :w00t:
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
June 11, 2013 at 7:51 am
Perhaps the death of WinForms is more than the passing of a reworked old technology but more the true passing of the client\server age.
It's funny that WinForms is still a more capable UI than almost all of the HTML/CSS/JS creations combined. It's like the industry regressed just to churn out more products for more money.
June 11, 2013 at 8:01 am
chrisn-585491 (6/11/2013)
Perhaps the death of WinForms is more than the passing of a reworked old technology but more the true passing of the client\server age.
It's funny that WinForms is still a more capable UI than almost all of the HTML/CSS/JS creations combined. It's like the industry regressed just to churn out more products for more money.
I can see a scenario where organizations turn to cloud based services to host their e-commerce database or quickly spin up some one-off analytical solution requested by management. However, for the most part large corporations will keep their line of business applications in-house where they always have been. Just like smart phone apps havn't displaced traditional windows based apps, it's just broadened the market to include new types of apps and more users.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 11, 2013 at 8:54 am
I can see a scenario where organizations turn to cloud based services to host their e-commerce database or quickly spin up some one-off analytical solution requested by management.
That's about what I see. But the daily bread, the data, the crown jewels will more than likely be in-house for a long, long, while.
June 11, 2013 at 9:36 am
chrisn-585491 (6/11/2013)
I can see a scenario where organizations turn to cloud based services to host their e-commerce database or quickly spin up some one-off analytical solution requested by management.
That's about what I see. But the daily bread, the data, the crown jewels will more than likely be in-house for a long, long, while.
I disagree. Of course it is one of those "only time will tell" discussion but do feel free to tell me "I told you so" in a post to this forum...
...but not for 5 years :crazy:
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
June 11, 2013 at 9:46 am
Gary Varga (6/11/2013)
chrisn-585491 (6/11/2013)
I can see a scenario where organizations turn to cloud based services to host their e-commerce database or quickly spin up some one-off analytical solution requested by management.
That's about what I see. But the daily bread, the data, the crown jewels will more than likely be in-house for a long, long, while.
I disagree. Of course it is one of those "only time will tell" discussion but do feel free to tell me "I told you so" in a post to this forum...
...but not for 5 years :crazy:
I think the case for cloud database services is more strong and compelling for small and medium sized organizations than it is for large organizations. More compelling for small/medium sized databases than for large data warehouses. More compelling for e-commerce and marketing than for financial, healthcare, and government.
Just like web service based development, mobile apps, and NoSQL; cloud based database services will fill a niche and take over some industries.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 11, 2013 at 10:47 am
Eric M Russell (6/11/2013)
Gary Varga (6/11/2013)
chrisn-585491 (6/11/2013)
I can see a scenario where organizations turn to cloud based services to host their e-commerce database or quickly spin up some one-off analytical solution requested by management.
That's about what I see. But the daily bread, the data, the crown jewels will more than likely be in-house for a long, long, while.
I disagree. Of course it is one of those "only time will tell" discussion but do feel free to tell me "I told you so" in a post to this forum...
...but not for 5 years :crazy:
I think the case for cloud database services is more strong and compelling for small and medium sized organizations than it is for large organizations. More compelling for small/medium sized databases than for large data warehouses. More compelling for e-commerce and marketing than for financial, healthcare, and government.
Just like web service based development, mobile apps, and NoSQL; cloud based database services will fill a niche and take over some industries.
My start-up clients use Azure because they need the smooth on-demand growth. If/when they grow and become medium sized companies, they will likely stick with the technology; that is what their staff knows and is comfortable about. Other reasons may emerge as Azure offers new and cheaper services.
If that is the current pattern - and I think it is -, you will see a slow, natural change of the technologies used by the midsize companies favoring the Cloud.
June 11, 2013 at 11:19 am
Our clients are more concerned about data security. All the recent revelations about the NSA, PRISM and corporations involved have set back any external cloud hosting system plans by years.
For non-critical personal or charity sites that are purely information, I'm looking at testing some Amazon services on a trial basis. I've really lost confidence in the direction Microsoft in general has been going over the last couple of years.
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