August 29, 2012 at 9:09 am
John Hanrahan (8/29/2012)
Wow that's a very self limiting belief that personality cannot be taught. You bet it can, I would just say it's generally harder to change personality than it is to learn a new skill and that may not even be true. If someone wants to change something about themselves they can, it might be hard, difficult, etc. but it's possible.
Let me rephrase. I can't easily teach personality, and I can't gauge if someone wants to learn.
Perhaps I can't do that with technical skills either, but I can gauge that more easily, or perhaps realize quicker that a person isn't willing to learn or try.
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August 29, 2012 at 9:14 am
After seeing the picture, all I can think of is "Damn, pulling that tape off musta hurt!"
August 29, 2012 at 9:17 am
thadeushuck (8/29/2012)
This is how it starts. Steve wants us to police our language at work. Then the government passes laws banning curse words at work and at home for the children's sake. Next thing you know they will take away my assualt rifles, tobacco and ammo stash so I will be aggitated chewing nicotine gumm & unprotected with only my assorted small arms, shotguns and rambo knives when the aliens come to eat us. WTF?:w00t:
They already are. It started with calling a rifle an assault weapon, when the only difference is the appearance. The media and government want us all to be sheep, easier to hold the 74th annual games that way!
Dave
August 29, 2012 at 9:24 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/29/2012)
thadeushuck (8/29/2012)
This is how it starts. Steve wants us to police our language at work. Then the government passes laws banning curse words at work and at home for the children's sake. Next thing you know they will take away my assualt rifles, tobacco and ammo stash so I will be aggitated chewing nicotine gumm & unprotected with only my assorted small arms, shotguns and rambo knives when the aliens come to eat us. WTF?:w00t:Didn't ask you to police anything. Just suggested you think about it. You get the consequences with the responsibility.
I assume you're joking, but it's not a black and white issue. There shouldn't be rules about this, but there also shouldn't be any expectation that anyone else has to live with behavior by others without being offended or being able to lodge a complaint.
What we need more is judgment on the issue from managers, not silly rules.
You got that right! There are a lot of people today who would say that you using the phrase "black and white" is fine, but if I do it is racist. What it comes down to is that we all have the right to our opinions, and we all have the right to express those opinions, but none of us have the right to decide what opinions others can express.
That doesn't change the fact that having the right to express your opinion doesn't negate the need to first determine if the situation calls for it. More to the point, if I was interviewing for a position and found that the company might have involvement in things that I am ethically opposed to, I have to consider whether speaking up or remaining quiet is the best course of action. No clear answer for that, it is an individual choice.
Dave
August 29, 2012 at 9:26 am
I have been in IT for nearly 20 years and a DBA for 14 of them and I can tell you something for certain and that is we are a twisted bunch. When it comes to interviews we all put on a mask and typically act nothing like who we really are. If there is some prude in the group they tend to get pushed out because we reject that the 1 of 100 makes the rules for the other 99. We had one lady doing QA who thought every last one of us were animals. Well, she doesn't work here any longer but the rest of us do. There are certain words that should be off limits in the office like the one that starts with C but many others are fine and to me, it is about context.
Don't talk like this, don't dress like that, don't write code the way you do and don't put too much sugar in your coffee unless you want the world to reject you. There are a lot more of us less than perfect people in the world than the perfect so, the perfect will have to get used to dealing with us because we out number them and we aren't going anywhere.
Cheers
August 29, 2012 at 9:32 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/29/2012)
djackson 22568 (8/29/2012)
I believe people should think about what they say. I also don't buy the "identically qualified" candidate argument. IMO HR departments and others tend to focus more on personality than skills. I have worked for many companys where everyone got along, yet a few of us pulled the majority of the weight because nobody else had a clue what they were doing.There is no such thing as two people that are identically qualified. All our previous experience and skills are different. Besides, how do we measure that?
I disagree with you on focusing on skills. Skills can be taught. Personality cannot. Disagreements are separate from not getting along at all. I think teams require the ability to get along, personality-wise, while also disagreeing and debating on topics.
Where I think we can fail is that we don't require people to get better at their jobs enough. We allow mediocrity to languish, instead of pressing on people to improve over time and get better at their jobs.
Skills may have been a poor choice of words. I must be unskilled at communicating. 😀
I stand by what I was thinking though, which might be better termed intelligence. Most skills can be taught, but not to everybody! Some skills can only be taught to a few. Some people can learn just about anything. Some people struggle with basic things like copying a file. Some people excel at new technology/current state, while others excel at older areas that don't rely as much on technology.
I guess what is important to me is that the person should show the ability to do the job at a competency level that makes sense. Then, we can worry about personality. But if I can only find one candidate who is able to correctly and carefully run the launch sequence for the space shuttle, I would rather employ that person and deal with conflict than to put an incompetent buffoon that is fun to work with in charge. An extreme example, but to me a person's capabilities are far more important than glad handing.
Dave
August 29, 2012 at 9:37 am
Lynn Pettis (8/29/2012)
I find as I get older I tire more quickly of the constant cursing of others. Don't get me wrong, I can curse with the best of them just get me behind the wheel of car with all the idiot drivers.
Reading this I thought of the way it sounds and I agree. Did you mean that "all other drivers are idiots" or just a lot of them? Myself, I live in a county where the "traffic enginees" design the stop lights to aggravate people, have no (profanity removed) clue that gas is over $4 a gallon, and drivers think it is acceptable and proper to sit side by side on the expressway blocking traffic at or below the speed limit, and then drive 20MPH OVER THE SPEED LIMIT on residential streets!
My biggest beef is the drivers that think it is fine to harrass other drivers because they don't like how they are driving.
Roof mounted machine guns might solve our ills there.:w00t:
Dave
August 29, 2012 at 9:38 am
jfogel (8/29/2012)
I have been in IT for nearly 20 years and a DBA for 14 of them and I can tell you something for certain and that is we are a twisted bunch. When it comes to interviews we all put on a mask and typically act nothing like who we really are. If there is some prude in the group they tend to get pushed out because we reject that the 1 of 100 makes the rules for the other 99. We had one lady doing QA who thought every last one of us were animals. Well, she doesn't work here any longer but the rest of us do. There are certain words that should be off limits in the office like the one that starts with C but many others are fine and to me, it is about context.Don't talk like this, don't dress like that, don't write code the way you do and don't put too much sugar in your coffee unless you want the world to reject you. There are a lot more of us less than perfect people in the world than the perfect so, the perfect will have to get used to dealing with us because we out number them and we aren't going anywhere.
Exactly, I could not have said it better myself! Once you start to even suggest, or regulate and enforce stuff like this it becomes a very slippery slope. What people find "offensive" varies widely, and if you are going to suggest people don't say or display offensive things at work then you have to include it all, or none of it. I once had a small picture of Gandi in my cubicle and some Indian took major offense to it! There is the slippery slope...:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 29, 2012 at 9:39 am
Uripedes Pants (8/29/2012)
After seeing the picture, all I can think of is "Damn, pulling that tape off musta hurt!"
LOL, my daughter had fun helping me with the picture.
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August 29, 2012 at 9:46 am
jfogel (8/29/2012)
I have been in IT for nearly 20 years and a DBA for 14 of them and I can tell you something for certain and that is we are a twisted bunch. When it comes to interviews we all put on a mask and typically act nothing like who we really are. If there is some prude in the group they tend to get pushed out because we reject that the 1 of 100 makes the rules for the other 99. We had one lady doing QA who thought every last one of us were animals. Well, she doesn't work here any longer but the rest of us do. There are certain words that should be off limits in the office like the one that starts with C but many others are fine and to me, it is about context.Don't talk like this, don't dress like that, don't write code the way you do and don't put too much sugar in your coffee unless you want the world to reject you. There are a lot more of us less than perfect people in the world than the perfect so, the perfect will have to get used to dealing with us because we out number them and we aren't going anywhere.
Maybe so, but there is a very vocal, minority group that wants to dictate how everyone else behaves. They are pushing agendas in various areas, while attempting to divide all of us up so we focus on each other's differences and not our similarities. Take you and I for an example, I am positive we are different in a large number of areas, but I prefer to focus on those areas where we have commonalities. From your post, it appears you do something similar with those you encounter. Your stated acceptance of "other less than perfect people" would indicate maturity that others simply don't have.
Dave
August 29, 2012 at 10:00 am
djackson 22568 (8/29/2012)
Lynn Pettis (8/29/2012)
I find as I get older I tire more quickly of the constant cursing of others. Don't get me wrong, I can curse with the best of them just get me behind the wheel of car with all the idiot drivers.Reading this I thought of the way it sounds and I agree. Did you mean that "all other drivers are idiots" or just a lot of them? Myself, I live in a county where the "traffic enginees" design the stop lights to aggravate people, have no (profanity removed) clue that gas is over $4 a gallon, and drivers think it is acceptable and proper to sit side by side on the expressway blocking traffic at or below the speed limit, and then drive 20MPH OVER THE SPEED LIMIT on residential streets!
My biggest beef is the drivers that think it is fine to harrass other drivers because they don't like how they are driving.
Roof mounted machine guns might solve our ills there.:w00t:
All it takes is one or two idiot drivers. No, not all drivers are idiots, it just seems that way because the idiots are so visible.
August 29, 2012 at 10:01 am
Yet another example of what some people will take offense to nowadays. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 29, 2012 at 10:11 am
In this job market as in most of the past 50 years a person will want to put their best foot forward. They want to be professional, a team player, and a good future employee who will be a major contributor.
A boss is looking for a person who is able to get the job done and will have respect for thier work, their position, and the users of the business products.
If in an interview I use works like *&*%$! pinheads, stupid %#$**& users, and totally ignorant &^*%$$#s how could I expect to be seen as a viable candidate. Would you trust a person on the job to meet with your users and potential contractees who caught the air on fire in the interview when they were actually trying to be at their best?
Curse on your own time on in the privacy of your office. When you hire on to play in "their game" play by their rules. If you can not do that go elsewhere where this behavior is accepted or start your own company.
I agree you have the right to say it, but I do not have to pay you to say those things in front of key players in our business who would be offended.
And do I think some would actually blue streak in front of customers? You already know the answer to that!
Have a great day!
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 29, 2012 at 11:05 am
TravisDBA (8/29/2012)
Make it easier for others:
August 29, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Who in their right mind would use curse words in an interview?
I have interviewed people the last few years and this is not the way to get a job.
Also, regardless of whether you hated your last Job, just bring up positives. I saw great candidates make this mistake and they never got the job as my peers saw this as warning signs they would be hiring a trouble maker.
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