March 8, 2010 at 6:56 am
unfortunately self responsibility is often lacking. It affects the drinking as well as the coming into the office when you don't feel well. Everyone knows their limits. Some act more responsibly than others. My feeling on the matter is that if you are not impaired... work away. If you are impaired i think your best bet is to make it clear to your boss that you feel you should not be doing the work yourself but (if capable) are willing to consult with another resource. That way you can still assist if needed but are not the one making the changes. This is not to pass the buck but to add a check and balance if you are the go to resource.
March 8, 2010 at 7:13 am
One of the difficulties is knowing when you are impared. As one of the other posters said, alchohol tends to increase your confidence making it more likely that you are going to say that you are capable of working on a problem when in fact you are not.
The idea of working with someone else has some merit to it, but even then, if the other person does not completely understand, you may still tell them to do something that causes just as much trouble as if you typed it in yourself.
I think that if the company expects you to be on call all the time, then they cannot reasonably expect you to not imbibe on your own time. Consequently we should let the person who contacts you that you have been drinking and how much.
March 8, 2010 at 7:19 am
Let's do the math...
Boss says "All Hands On-Deck"
plus
"I'm too drunk"
equals
UNEMPLOYED
...sad but that is how the implied employment contract works in today's economy.
March 8, 2010 at 7:31 am
Gary Varga (3/8/2010)
From a truly serious viewpoint (sorry to spoil the party - hic), I believe that IT practitioners should be regulated like the legal and medical professions. In the UK if you do REALLY badly as a medical practitioner the GMC (General Medical Council) can strike you off and you no longer can work in the UK. It provides rules and guidelines that stipulate what is and is not acceptable.
What we DO NOT NEED is another level of government bureaucracy attempting to define a one size fits none solution. Being sober and responsible is essential, but that's a matter for workplace policies and NOT capricious interference from government.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 8, 2010 at 7:40 am
WI-DBA (3/8/2010)
I think the reality is, some of us are still better after several beers than many of our coworkers are sober - so as long as you can safely get to work in one manner or another, what is the difference?However, if oncall was paid, then I could see not having any drinks, but when its done gratus as I believe it is with most companies, there should be no requirement.
Is anyone in the US allowed to have a beer with lunch anymore?
I'll preface my comments by saying I do not drink.
When I worked at a manufacturing facility, there was one person on call for the IT department so you got the call all issues. We had a pretty good internal knowledge base setup so your job was to try to solve the issue and if it was outside your area of expertise you "escalated" it to the proper person, if you could get hold of them. If they had been drinking and had to come in, there would have been a good possibility that they could be fired for showing up at the facility. This is for safety reasons.
I would disagree that on-call is gratis. When you are hired the responsibilities are outlined and the salary includes on-call responsibilities. If those responsibilities change and your salary doesn't then it's time to renegotiate.
I'm sure that there must be a company somewhere in the US that allows a drink or two at lunch.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 8, 2010 at 7:43 am
Perhaps we need "sobriety testers" on our Keyboards simliar to the ones some states require habitual DUIers to install in their cars.
Better yet, how about "cognitive apability testers" for both our keyboards and cars.
Mental burnout can be as bad as alcohol for screwing up our ability to think straight.
Among my worst cases: (1) Loosing awareness of surroundings for 5 minutes, eyes wide open, staring at screen. (2) Stopping at a green light, waiting for it to change to red, and then proceeding through the intersection.
Instance 1 was pointed out to me by my assistant that was waiting patiently for me to complete a 15 second task.
Instance 2 I realized 2 miles down the road as it replayed in my mind for the 3rd or 4th time...
March 8, 2010 at 8:06 am
bwillsie-842793 (3/8/2010)
...Mental burnout can be as bad as alcohol for screwing up our ability to think straight.
I remember waking up from a peaceful sleep to an annoying noise. It was my computer beeping because I had fallen asleep on the keyboard.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
March 8, 2010 at 8:10 am
jay holovacs (3/8/2010)
I remember waking up from a peaceful sleep to an annoying noise. It was my computer beeping because I had fallen asleep on the keyboard.
Aaah I remember that feeling, followed shortly by looking in the mirror to see a keyboard imprint on your cheek and hand?
March 8, 2010 at 8:23 am
Interesting quandary.
I remember solving some interesting problems over a pint or 2 and making some of the biggest bonehead mistakes from being excessively tired during a long project install.
Seems to me there are different types of impairment and the best case is to have someone to share the load with and keep you in check. unfortunately in our small shop it's hard not to have specific information about a project that another in the group may not have.
My Friday rule is to not put anything new on the system that you are not prepared to come in on Saturday and fix.
"Filled with mingled cream and amber
I will drain that glass again
such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chambers of my brain.
Quantiest thoughts-queerest fancies,
Come to life and fade away:
What care I how time advances?
I am drinking ale today. "
-- POE
-- Optimist with experience and still learning
March 8, 2010 at 8:28 am
jay holovacs (3/8/2010)
Gary Varga (3/8/2010)
From a truly serious viewpoint (sorry to spoil the party - hic), I believe that IT practitioners should be regulated like the legal and medical professions. In the UK if you do REALLY badly as a medical practitioner the GMC (General Medical Council) can strike you off and you no longer can work in the UK. It provides rules and guidelines that stipulate what is and is not acceptable.What we DO NOT NEED is another level of government bureaucracy attempting to define a one size fits none solution. Being sober and responsible is essential, but that's a matter for workplace policies and NOT capricious interference from government.
I agree. Not a government agency. I still think that a framework should exist. Are people seriously advocating the need for a licence to drive a car but not to program a nuclear reactor etc?
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 8, 2010 at 8:34 am
This is Microsoft's answer to the drunk coders problem.
[font="Tahoma"]John Burris:hehe:
MCITP Database Administrator[/font]
March 8, 2010 at 8:36 am
I get the feeling people who program nuclear reactors are fairly well vetted beforehand. This is where references come in!
March 8, 2010 at 8:40 am
Martin Vrieze (3/8/2010)
Let's do the math...Boss says "All Hands On-Deck"
plus
"I'm too drunk"
equals
UNEMPLOYED
...sad but that is how the implied employment contract works in today's economy.
I'm not sure about that. Some bosses might try to do this, but I think you'd have a case for action. Especially if you couldn't drive. It is unreasonable for someone to work if they are impaired, and unreasonable for someone to expect others to not ever be unimpaired. We have lives.
I find it surprisingly hard to get fired from so many places. I see stories that stun me and people are not let go. I think in the US that this would be a valid argument. You don't have to tell your boss how many you had, but you can let him/her know that you are too drunk to drive. Which in many states is like 2-3 beers in an hour
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March 8, 2010 at 8:43 am
I think the point has been missed slightly. I'm not saying that you can't drink at lunch, or have a drink and come back to work for something. I'm noting that if you feel you are impaired, you ought to be responsible enough to tell your boss you can't work.
A beer at lunch is reasonable, and I've been out with my boss at times and had one.
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March 8, 2010 at 8:44 am
Also, on the nuclear issue, and even in some manufacturing plants, the code used in IT isn't something you're changing and deploying on a regular basis. Most IT that I've seen in nuclear plants is reading off some other system and making it easier to monitor, but it's not the primary control. The ancient, 30-40 year old switches and dials and old computers are still the way that most things work.
Any code you wrote would be vetted, probably over weeks, before it was deployed.
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