To Certify or Not to Certify
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I'm thinking hard about applying as a Database Administrator within my company. Currently I have a computer science degree and the main things I learned about databases was the design process through ER Models and the Semantic Object Model. The current group of Database Admin's don't have certfications so I wanted some personal feedback on certifications in general. Did it help in your career search? Is it recommended or is better to teach yourself? (This seems costly). Also is there a path to certification that is inexpensive? (why does education cost so much) Any tips, opinions and feedback will be greatly appreciated. (a mentor would be even better) I would like to know the ends and outs so if anyone has any suggested books, please advise.
Thanks,
James
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First, to understand the value of certification in a job search, it helps to see the perspective of the hiring manager. If the manager gets 25 resumes for the job, he has to make the cut to decide which applicants will get the interview. If he is comparing two equally qualified applicants, the one who is certified is more likely to be put in the "interview" pile. However, if there are several applicants who have more experience than the certified person, then he may not make the cut to be interviewed. I think this is the only "career value" of MCDBA certification.
Second, there is a personal value to certification if you want to better yourself and widen your horizons. There are a lot of features in the SQL Server product that you will need to learn about during the certification process. It can be interesting or boring depending on your passion for technology and databases. If you think it will be boring, then you will need the interaction of training classes and outside help. If you think it will be interesting then you can read the books, setup your home lab and save a lot of money. It can be done through self-study, but it's not easy.
The best books are from Sybex and Que, IMO.
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Last year I started a thread that asked if anyone had actually been involved in a hiring decision where the certification made the difference. This might be an urban myth, or savvy propoganda from Microsoft. There were many responses, many of them claiming the same story as above, but it was always "I heard" or "Someone told me" - third, fourth, or fifth hand. After you have been a DBA for a period, there is no career value in certifications. If you are starting out - then maybe - but only if your current employer values certifications. If not, not.
Yes, I have almost all of the certifications. I have never been involved in the scenario mentioned. I have been hired because I have the skills necessary. I have not been interviewed soley based of my certifications - unless it was for a teaching position.
Yes, there is personal value in certifications. They expose you to many different aspects of database development and administration. You will know how to find the answers, which is half the battle. You will not be a database expert just because you passed the tests, but you will have a better idea of what it takes to be a database expert.
It's your decision.
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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I have been involved in two cases where the cert mattered. One, I applied for a position with JD Edwards. The ad stated that MCDBA required and pretty much every resume that didn't have MCDBA was tossed. Fortunately mine wasn't because the HR guy was busy and sent all resumes to the mgr. He liked my experience and gave me an interview. If the HR guy had done the initial filtering, I WOULD NOT have gotten called. It's a simple filter in many large companies.
Two, I was interviewing people for a position. It came down to 3 people, all about equally qualified. One had more experience, but more jobs, etc. It basically balanaced out. For a mid level position, we choose the MCDBA because of the MCDBA. He'd made an effort to get certified, after having some experience. All things being equal, it made us look slightly, very slightly, more favorably on someone that had worked on their career.
Is it worth it? http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones/point_certification.asp
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This is awesome. I'll go with getting the certification and I'll take the home lab approach so I can save myself a buck or two. Thank you everyone for your valuable input.
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Good luck. Be sure to visit here for help
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I'll throw in another side to the coin of how certification may affect your interview process...
If you list a certification on your resume, you darn well better be able to demonstrate expert-level knowledge of whatever you list. I've interviewed more than one "certified" candidate who ended up in the "not recommended for hire" pile because they clearly did not have the fundamental experience one should have prior to obtaining the cert.
From the MS Certification website:
"...MCDBA on SQL Server 2000 candidates should have at least one year of experience working with SQL Server. ..."
If I remember correctly, in the past, this sentiment was even more strongly worded regarding how much experience one should actually have. I obtained my MCSD back in the day without ever cracking a "Certification Study"-oriented book. I simply knew the material as a result of having done the job and worked with the products for so long.
One final nit while I'm on the ol' soapbox... you refer to the certification process as "education", when it is probably more accurate to call it "product training".
I wish you luck in your endeavor. If possible, as you progress, you should bump this thread with reports of your experience so that others can benefit.
TroyK
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Laughing. "Product exposure" would be a better term.
Yes, the best option is to work with the system. Understand your tools - EM, QA, Profiler, etc.
Learn T-SQL. My mentor taught me that I should be able to do everything with a script. Yes, you can do this or that quicker with EM, but what will you do if the EM is not available? It is better to struggle with T-SQL today than on a Saturday night with your boss looking over your shoulder as you try to restore the system.
Read books on how to create and use stored procedures - The Guru Guides by Henderson, or SQL Server 2000 Stored Procedure by Sunderic are worth your time and money.
Work with DTS. Know when it is a great tool, and when it should not be used. Write a couple of bcp scripts. Know how to move data safely.
First do no harm.
Be extremely protective of your data. If the database fails it is your job to restore it as fast and safely as possible. Know how to backup and restore through EM and QA. Learn to verify your backups.
Listen to what people want. My favorite joke is DBA means "Don't bother asking". My mentor taught me to answer any request with "No". Any action that changes the data or structure of the base tables is suspect. Do not agree to do anything just because they ask for it. Create views. Create stored procs. Put things between people and your data.
Ciao
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hehe, Patrick, I remember this thread
Anyway, I am now kind of in a similar situation. I'm not working in the IT business at all and applied recently for a DBA position in my company (Yes, I did it, Dale!
). Before that I thought also of getting certified as a MCDBA. So I bought the Original training books from MS Press. I don't want to start a discussion on the quality of those books. However I thought it might help me. Well, now I know more. Not sure, if I get this position, but when talking to our head of IT there was no word of such "formal qualifications". He wasn't interested in such paper stuff anyway. We talked about some technical issues and that's it. So, now I think this certification might help impress some people, but bear very little added-value. And I'm not sure if I will continue getting certified as I think I got better things to do with my time. --
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
After reading everyone’s replies, I decided to ask the DBA's in the company about their background experience. All of them are self taught and only two of them posses a college degree. I just ordered SQL Server Unleashed and Transact SQL (per Ciao's suggestion) and I'm going to teach myself as well. I don't think that it is necessary anymore to spend that kind of money and time on a certification. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.
Thanks,
James
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May I add that, in my case anyway, it really helps me a lot being here in the fora. Reading someone's problem, think about it and researching the answer was and is invaluable to me.
On books, I assume you already own a copy of "Inside SQL Server 2000" by Kalen Delaney? IMHO, the only book about SQL Server worth reading as a whole. At least if you want to be more of an administrative DBA than a developing one.
Good luck!
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Laughing....
Ciao means goodbye in Italian.
Yes, my copy of Kalen's book is beaten, stained (probably coffee) and worn. It is always within arm's reach.
I checked my shelves at home, and I still have a couple of books on 6.5 (you never know). All of my SQL Server 7 books are gone. The Guru's Guide to Transact-SQL is heavily annotated and used. I also have the Practical SQL Handbooks; sometimes it is good to have the basics handy.
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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I am grinning here and I am at work, so I am not sure what other people think of my grinning face, but hey who cares right?
I am a DBA at the company I work for, and I (as probably many here) am self taught. I have read many of the books that are mentioned here, and a few more that I would have to look for in the bookshelf behind me which unfortunately is quite afar (and locked being that I have quite a number of dvds of value so I keep it locked.)
I do agree that experience is really valuable. Certification is valuable too mind you, in case you need to 'hit' on a job that has the Certification as a necessity.
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