March 23, 2016 at 1:55 am
chrisn-585491 (3/22/2016)
Mangerment shouldn't worry about age or training. They can just hire more H-1Bs or outsource security and DBA positions. :smooooth:
Don't get me started on this fetish.
Outsource your liabilities
Onboard your assets
Make sure you know which is which
Make sure you understand the touch points as this can sway the decision
March 23, 2016 at 5:15 am
DavidL (3/22/2016)
tindog (3/22/2016)
JesseBizInt (3/22/2016)
I call myself an accidental dev because I ended up falling into a business intelligence role mainly through passion and not through any in-depth technical knowledge. Yes, I can write T-SQL, but indexes... umm... what are indexes?Something that I would love to see would be a basic roadmap of skills. Something that highlights what entry level DBAs should know, what mid-level DBAs should know and what senior DBAs should know. I'd also like to see the same thing applied to the BI portions of SQL Server as well, such as data warehousing, SSAS, and SSRS.
I think one thing that really hinders skill development is that there really isn't a clear path defined. Yes, there are the Microsoft certifications, but do those match what the industry considers best practice. That was a serious question as I haven't taken the exams yet.
Some of the stuff in the exams you will never touch, some of it you will use on an almost daily basis. Some of the techniques your boss will scold you for using, some of them s/he will love. It really depends on the path you choose, company practice/culture, the projects you're assigned to...clear as mud, but I think the exams do give you a solid basis for proving your technical knowledge, plus they give you a way deeper insight into the world of SQL server.
There's a few seniors/managers on here who sometimes give insight into what they look for in a DBA - but opinions seem to differ slightly for each level (junior, mid, senior).
There are dba-s and there are DBA-s. When my manager refers to me as a DBA, I smile politely and bite my tongue, because I know better. SQL server is both broad and deep, and a DBA is required to have deep understanding of a number of pretty arcane areas. BrentOzar.com has some good resources on getting up to speed as a Dba, how to progress to a DBa, and finally what it means to be a DBA (excuse the goofy nomenclature but I'm sure you'll understand). He also goes so far as to identify several flavors of dba, and takes pains to explain why they are mostly NOT 'real' DBAs, although people who do those jobs may do nothing but work with and within sql server. His 6 Month Training Plan is a good place to start. It's free.
Indeed, and an excellent point. Many do use DBA as a blanket term for any job revolving around SQL/Oracle etc, whereas a DBA in my opinion is an entirely different role to say, an analyst.
And thankyou for mentioning the 6m training plan - I'm going to share it with a self-proclaimed "DBA" I'm acquainted with..
March 23, 2016 at 6:58 am
A lot of this sounds like the "in my day" and "uphill both ways" stuff people like to complain about. I've worked with a reasonable number of millenials. Some are hard workers, some aren't. You can't paint them all with the same brush.
I don't consider myself a real DBA. I understand server/database roles, have solid T-SQL skills, am pretty good with SSIS and SSRS, can do some query optimization and troubleshooting, and have implemented a relatively solid backup strategy. However, ask me to explain pageiolatch_sh waits and watch what happens.
I'm definitely an accidental DBA and I would expect a lot of people to continue finding themselves in similar positions. A lot of organizations and management don't know enough to realize they even need such a role. I've heard everything from "well, this is a database thing, you should be able to handle it" to "it's in the cloud, that means it's backed up". That should act as somewhat of a funnel to expose people to database technologies.
March 23, 2016 at 7:48 am
m_swetz (3/23/2016)
A lot of this sounds like the "in my day" and "uphill both ways" stuff people like to complain about. I've worked with a reasonable number of millenials. Some are hard workers, some aren't. You can't paint them all with the same brush.
I think that most of us were complaining about the education they received (or rather what we feel are omissions in their education). No accusation of all being lazy.
Some work hard. Some don't. Regardless of age.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 23, 2016 at 7:56 am
brannanliz (3/22/2016)
In college Database work was the last thing I wanted to do and SQL wasn't being taught yet. Databases sounded so boring. Then I needed a job, part time while I was still in school. A prof. hooked me up with a friend who was developing a database. I was to start as data entry and see where it went. Well some decades later I still love data. I love that I can take random pieces of data and turn it into information. Random pieces, random facts and create something usable and understandable. I can help people and companies do their jobs. Unfortunately that is not how databases are presented in schools. We will continue to be the fastest growing section of IT. Hopefully students will accidentally get hooked and then develop the technical knowledge.
I think you've hit the nail on the head insofar as "boring".
During high school, I loved math (still do) but it was boring. I remember one incident in a Trig class where the instructor gave us an example of how to use Trig to calculate the distance to a tree that was across a river. It was a narrow river that you could easily shoot an arrow to with a measuring string attached to it and I thought "Why am I learning this and how often am I going to need to calculate the distance to something? This is freakin' boring". We didn't even go outside to try the method. The instructor miss an opportunity to explain some of the really cool stuff that even simple Trig is used for and how it could be used in multiple disciplines.
Unfortunately, most instructors for database technology fall into the same trap. Many don't even use something like Adventure Works to show even some of the basics and the real problem is, they don't show how to "count" (absolutely critical for the truly advanced stuff) or how to make your own test data. They don't show any of the "fun" stuff.
And worse than that, most instructors seem bored with their jobs because they don't bring any excitement of their own to the class. They also don't bring the excitement of bringing massive performance improvement to a system nor even identify how that can be a reward of it's own. I've never seen another instructor (for example) teach a While loop and then explore all the different methods to do the same thing but much faster and why you probably wouldn't want to use an rCTE to do the same thing. They don't bring any excitement to the class of "you against the computer" or "you trying to help others improve their code", which is another self-realizing reward.
--Jeff Moden
March 23, 2016 at 8:00 am
The concepts of a corporate retirement pension or even seniority based on years of service are practically nonexistent here in the US, least of all within the IT industry. Our income after retirement depends entirely on our net paycheck, and where we fall within the departmental pecking order depends on our skillset and past experience. It's important to keep that foremost in mind when navigating one's career path.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 23, 2016 at 8:16 am
m_swetz (3/23/2016)
... "it's in the cloud, that means it's backed up"...
"In the cloud" = "On someone else's server that we access across the internet at WAN, rather than LAN, speeds. And we don't know precisely how they're backing it up, if at all." Personally I prefer to be able to lay hands upon the boxes containing the data that I'm responsible for, but I am not management and I'm not paying the bills and YMMV (your mileage may vary). Though the cloud has its uses, I am not overall a fan. Which means that I must be a curmudgeon: having been doing this stuff for 20+ years, I guess I qualify. 😀
Ignorance must be very comforting. :w00t:
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
March 23, 2016 at 9:48 am
Ignorance must be very comforting.
Yes, yes it is and management often has an abundance. I agree I want to know the data is backed up and that it is physically secure. I want assurance that when a machine is decommissioned the hard drives are removed and destroyed. I have bought a few decommissioned servers that came complete with someone else's data. But having it in the cloud on someone else's server means you don't have to have as many IT employees or worry about any of that.
March 23, 2016 at 12:18 pm
Wayne West (3/23/2016)
m_swetz (3/23/2016)
... "it's in the cloud, that means it's backed up"..."...And we don't know precisely how they're backing it up, if at all...."
In this particular case, it wasn't being backed up. The provider did offer a managed service where they would handle that, but I'll give you one guess as to whether they purchased it.
March 23, 2016 at 12:22 pm
brannanliz (3/23/2016)
Ignorance must be very comforting.
Yes, yes it is and management often has an abundance. I agree I want to know the data is backed up and that it is physically secure. I want assurance that when a machine is decommissioned the hard drives are removed and destroyed. I have bought a few decommissioned servers that came complete with someone else's data. But having it in the cloud on someone else's server means you don't have to have as many IT employees or worry about any of that.
I wish!
This is why we encrypt cloud drives and the keys are tightly controlled. Steal the drives and the only thing you can do is perform a low level format on them if you expect to use them.
If you are serious about using the cloud the attention to detail required is immense.
VPN access
Inbound/outbound proxy servers
specific IP address lock down between subnets.
Specific port lock down
Machine roles (a specific machine can only communicate with another specific machine using a specific function)
Encryption at rest
Encryption over the wire
Admin users destroyed after the machine has been built.
All machines are immutable in their setup and configuration. If you want a different configuration then you destroy the machine and replace it with one in the configuration you require.
Multi-factor authentication
Intrusion protection/detection
Change event monitoring i.e. someone changes an IP address rule on a firewall then an alert is fired off.
The cloud is not inherently bad, it punishes corner cutters.
March 23, 2016 at 1:49 pm
Having come into the DBA world via the accidental route by way of server / desktop / network admining, here's a thought on this...
To some extant, it seems to me that the server / network / non-dev DBA roles are closer to the sort of position that could almost be considered "vocational," where you teach someone the basics, and then start them on easy things, tossing them something more difficult every so often.
Development-type positions would get more theory up-front, rather then picking it up on the job.
I know it sounds like I'm advocating the apprentice / mentor method, and maybe that might be a good way. The problem is, though, like others pointed out, the, let's call them admin-type positions, are the same as a sewer repairmans job. Nobody notices you, nobody pays attention to you, until the drains are overflowing and the toilets are spraying waste to the ceiling.
As I've put it, a good production DBA is never known, until something breaks...
March 23, 2016 at 3:46 pm
On the whole I think we are terrible at recruitment and other PR tasks, it's just not a natural role for most us I think. The last person I mentored was a freshly minted physics grad* that I managed to talk into be a junior DBA. She was a natural who enjoyed organizing data and solving problems. I don't worry so much about the talent pool, I worry more about getting people into the field or at least getting it more exposure. We are at a significant disadvantage with developers for a number of obvious reasons and it's something of a PR battle for us. Brent Ozar and Co. are the best (IMO) at going against the stereotype. It's something that perhaps PASS is best equipped to address.
* the best 'mentees' I've had are physics majors and not MIS/Computer Science people like I expected. My hunch is that it's more important to be able to think logically and problem solve then it is to know how to use the latest office productivity suite or even the latest language for that matter. I'm an MIS major myself and I can think of only 2 or 3 classes that I still value.
March 23, 2016 at 6:27 pm
ccd3000 (3/23/2016)
...I'm an MIS major myself and I can think of only 2 or 3 classes that I still value.
I think that most of the degrees I looked at (circa '94) appeared to offer little to lead anyone into a job in IT. By being very selective, and lucky, I got on a great degree that did but nowadays the same university can no longer match the course.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 24, 2016 at 4:04 am
Gary Varga (3/23/2016)
ccd3000 (3/23/2016)
...I'm an MIS major myself and I can think of only 2 or 3 classes that I still value.I think that most of the degrees I looked at (circa '94) appeared to offer little to lead anyone into a job in IT. By being very selective, and lucky, I got on a great degree that did but nowadays the same university can no longer match the course.
I did an MSc in IT in the eighties. This followed on from a BSc in Physics a few year earlier at the same, then, Polytechnic. I went to a reunion there a few years ago (it is now a university) and found that both courses were now far less rigorous to the extent I would say they have been dumbed down. 🙁
March 24, 2016 at 4:20 am
mjh 45389 (3/24/2016)
Gary Varga (3/23/2016)
ccd3000 (3/23/2016)
...I'm an MIS major myself and I can think of only 2 or 3 classes that I still value.I think that most of the degrees I looked at (circa '94) appeared to offer little to lead anyone into a job in IT. By being very selective, and lucky, I got on a great degree that did but nowadays the same university can no longer match the course.
I did an MSc in IT in the eighties. This followed on from a BSc in Physics a few year earlier at the same, then, Polytechnic. I went to a reunion there a few years ago (it is now a university) and found that both courses were now far less rigorous to the extent I would say they have been dumbed down. 🙁
I think "dumbed down" is probably the best term for it. My recent BSc IT education was rubbish - very vague, touching the surface but not getting deep into any specialisms, if it wasn't free I would have ditched it early on.
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