June 17, 2014 at 12:26 pm
GilaMonster (6/17/2014)
Andrew Kernodle (6/17/2014)
Beatrix Kiddo (6/17/2014)
Andrew, how do you cope with no annual leave? (If that's not too personal.)Simple! No job I've ever held so far has allowed me to have leave, so I've never experienced it :-D.
Find another job! In many countries that (no leave allowed) would be illegal.
Definitely going to make an attempt at it :-). But technically, I've gotten leave time in both DBA jobs I've had so far; I've just not been allowed to use it. The other programmers are in a similar boat; one scheduled his week's worth of leave last year in May, and it got pushed back repeatedly to September before finally being cancelled. Our sysadmin took his vacation last month, and got called back on his first day after a nine-hour drive out of state to attend to a problem that the vendor had fixed by the time he got back. He's trying to get his leave approved again, but who knows if that's going to happen.
But yep, it's fairly horrible. I was just thinking of sending in a request to use my leave next month, just to see how it goes. Thankfully, there's a big developer's conference here in town in August (that both Grant and Kevin Kline will be attending, so I'll definitely be at a few sessions if I can manage it!), which will hopefully have some employment opportunities.
- 😀
June 17, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Andrew Kernodle (6/17/2014)
But technically, I've gotten leave time in both DBA jobs I've had so far; I've just not been allowed to use it.
That's the same as no leave. Try that here, or most places in Europe I expect, and company could be facing some rather large fines.
One thing my manager made clear first time I sent him a leave form is that in his opinion a leave form is not a request, it's a notification. He trusts his people not to book leave at times that would be inappropriate for the clients (don't book a week off when there's a major deployment on that wednesday), and so he considers leave notifications approved by default.
Hell, by the time I get back in August I'm going to be 6 days negative for annual leave. No one's complaining.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm
GilaMonster (6/17/2014)
Andrew Kernodle (6/17/2014)
But technically, I've gotten leave time in both DBA jobs I've had so far; I've just not been allowed to use it.That's the same as no leave. Try that here, or most places in Europe I expect, and company could be facing some rather large fines.
One thing my manager made clear first time I sent him a leave form is that in his opinion a leave form is not a request, it's a notification. He trusts his people not to book leave at times that would be inappropriate for the clients (don't book a week off when there's a major deployment on that wednesday), and so he considers leave notifications approved by default.
Hell, by the time I get back in August I'm going to be 6 days negative for annual leave. No one's complaining.
Eheh, well... This company's done more than a few things that would get them fined if someone would raise the appropriate complaints :hehe:. There used to be a policy for the manual-labor workers here (of which there's about 200) that, if the business system went down for any reason, they were to clock out and wait for it to come back up. Leaving wasn't allowed until the wait stretched past two hours.
Naturally, that's quite illegal, but it was in practice for about three years. Finally, one of the programmers (who was promoted from the manual-labor positions) was subjected to this, to which he immediately raised a concern to management. They weren't aware at all that what they were doing was illegal; it just seemed like a good idea.
Unfortunately, now that I've lived in this area a little longer, and gotten insight from the other programmers, it looks like this city is in a weird place. It's trying to evolve into a tech-hub-sorta-thing, but attracting people to do business here isn't working out too well. The result is that we've got some tech startups and a little established presence here, but it's scattered, and openings aren't widely available. As a result, moving to a new job is usually quite problematic, which most employers have realized, and so they're free to constrain their IT departments more fiercely. After all, where are you going to go if you don't like how we're treating you?
It's pretty rough.
- 😀
June 17, 2014 at 1:14 pm
Only problem with spreading the knowledge....is getting upper management to make the time commitment. It's a lot more fulfilling for them to announce a bunch of completed deliverables than it is training milestones. Yes....I know that is insane. But I get it all the time....
I got thrown out of the DR process for "making waves". I made the statement that planning for recovery at a DR site, having the hardware ready etc etc is all well and good. But in a real disaster the weakness is the loss of the SME's (the people)....they should randomly flag 10% of the DR team to be unavailable the day of the test. There are some people that are the "go to person" with no backup...and that is a big exposure.Because in a real disaster my first obligation is my family. I haven't been asked back since 🙂
But you all raise valid points about "teaching a man to fish"....time to have the conversation with my boss again.
June 17, 2014 at 1:36 pm
RobertMurch (6/17/2014)
I got thrown out of the DR process for "making waves". I made the statement that planning for recovery at a DR site, having the hardware ready etc etc is all well and good. But in a real disaster the weakness is the loss of the SME's (the people)....they should randomly flag 10% of the DR team to be unavailable the day of the test. There are some people that are the "go to person" with no backup...and that is a big exposure.Because in a real disaster my first obligation is my family. I haven't been asked back since 🙂
My last position had me building the DR procedures so that I could hand another tech guy (not a DBA) the instruction and they could do it just by following the procedures. I had to get really good to do step-by-step procedures that an non-DBA could do it. It worked out. They gave me small bonus for it.
When I started in my current position I was the only DBA on the help desk with our really buggy software. That made me invaluable in building scripts that the regular help desk staff could run to fix the more generic problems so I could take time off. I still had on-call duties for some of the larger clients running into a new issue. I only had about four time in my vacation time interrupted. But at the same time only a few people had my cell number and my supervisor did her best not to disturb me with minor issues that could wait. 😎
----------------
Jim P.
A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
June 17, 2014 at 1:40 pm
How do you deal with the pressure and stress?
By making sure I'm not the only one in the shop who's capable of solving problems.
I identify others who have the ability and desire to learn critical portions of my job, and train them accordingly.
It's folly - or perhaps arrogance, with a tincture of fear mixed in - not to do so, if the opportunity exists.
June 17, 2014 at 2:47 pm
Very interesting editorial and replies...
My personal experience has actually been opposite of some posting here. I am the Senior DBA and work alongside a Junior DBA who is still learning the trade. We support multiple database platforms, including SQL. And when I say 'we' I really mean 'me'. The Junior DBA wants only to learn SQL and actively works to avoid learning the other technologies we have. This puts me in a bad spot and causes substantial support to fall squarely into my lap. How do you 'teach a man to fish' when they're perfectly content receiving a fish from you every day and not learning how to do it themselves? It's a tough spot to be in...
Kurt
June 17, 2014 at 5:33 pm
Beatrix Kiddo (6/17/2014)
My Senior DBA likes to be the only one that knows some stuff so (in my opinion) he actively excludes me from situations where I might be able to learn more. He seems to think it means job security for him, but I think he's wrong. Anybody can be fired.
I remember years ago a co-worker saying that he would always have a job there because he was the only one that knew how to run the systems.
He was let go the next day.
Even if you are actually indispensable, that does not mean that the people making decisions know it or care if you are.
June 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Michael Valentine Jones (6/17/2014)
Even if you are actually indispensable, that does not mean that the people making decisions know it or care if you are.
'The graveyards are full of indispensable men.'
June 17, 2014 at 9:49 pm
ronang (6/17/2014)
@Gaz....There are no really good DBA's or Developers that have not messed up some system or database so badly that they had to come up with creative ways to recover"
I couldn't agree more.....
“Program (pro’ gram) n. a logical sequence of operations to be performed by a computer that usually results in error messages, v.t. to engage in an activity similar to banging one’s head against a wall.”
June 17, 2014 at 9:56 pm
GilaMonster (6/17/2014)
Andrew Kernodle (6/17/2014)
But technically, I've gotten leave time in both DBA jobs I've had so far; I've just not been allowed to use it.That's the same as no leave. Try that here, or most places in Europe I expect, and company could be facing some rather large fines.
One thing my manager made clear first time I sent him a leave form is that in his opinion a leave form is not a request, it's a notification. He trusts his people not to book leave at times that would be inappropriate for the clients (don't book a week off when there's a major deployment on that wednesday), and so he considers leave notifications approved by default.
Hell, by the time I get back in August I'm going to be 6 days negative for annual leave. No one's complaining.
I even receive Skype messages here asking if I have had my lunch break yet and if not why not......as far as leave goes forget it at peak times but any other time request and expect it to be granted.
“Program (pro’ gram) n. a logical sequence of operations to be performed by a computer that usually results in error messages, v.t. to engage in an activity similar to banging one’s head against a wall.”
June 17, 2014 at 10:18 pm
My company's HR department gets on managers who don't make sure their employees take all of their vacation every year. You have to get out of the office for at least solid week or two a year. It's when I have come up with some of the best ideas doing something completely unrelated to my work. You also have to take the time to work on your personal relationships with your wife, kids or friends if you don't have a family yet.
I only wish my company would let me take sebaticals after 5 or so years to work on writing, teaching, or maybe working on a development project to keep my skills sharp and learn some new ones from other DBA's and developers. I've seen it talked about and I think employees would come back with some great skills if more companies offered it.
June 18, 2014 at 2:43 am
Kurt Kemper (6/17/2014)
Very interesting editorial and replies...My personal experience has actually been opposite of some posting here. I am the Senior DBA and work alongside a Junior DBA who is still learning the trade. We support multiple database platforms, including SQL. And when I say 'we' I really mean 'me'. The Junior DBA wants only to learn SQL and actively works to avoid learning the other technologies we have. This puts me in a bad spot and causes substantial support to fall squarely into my lap. How do you 'teach a man to fish' when they're perfectly content receiving a fish from you every day and not learning how to do it themselves? It's a tough spot to be in...
Kurt
Stop feeding them fish. If you are the senior then surely you have the remit, right and obligation to ensure that the junior learns other parts too. It could creep in by making it take up just 20% of their time. Don't let the tail wag the dog!!!
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
June 18, 2014 at 4:36 am
GilaMonster (6/17/2014)
Andrew Kernodle (6/17/2014)
Beatrix Kiddo (6/17/2014)
Andrew, how do you cope with no annual leave? (If that's not too personal.)Simple! No job I've ever held so far has allowed me to have leave, so I've never experienced it :-D.
Find another job! In many countries that (no leave allowed) would be illegal.
Agreed! That's terrible. Wow.
I remember years ago a co-worker saying that he would always have a job there because he was the only one that knew how to run the systems.
He was let go the next day.
Even if you are actually indispensable, that does not mean that the people making decisions know it or care if you are.
I have seen the same thing. I work on the assumption that anybody can be let go at any time, and you can't risk resting on your laurels. (Also, I think it encourages laziness because if you think you've got a cushy job for life you'll never push yourself to do better things.)
I don't understand the point in having a Junior DBA who isn't keen to learn more from the seniors and mid-levels. The Junior DBA in my office is really motivated, and wants to stop being a Junior as soon as he can. (He'll probably leave soon because of the aforementioned Senior DBA who doesn't like to share the knowledge!)
June 18, 2014 at 4:49 am
I am a single point of failure and have been all the time in my current job (5 years) and support in house applications. Apparently we "don't have the budget" for a backup.
First of all I was paid overtime, then after 2 years, that stopped.
Then I was given time off in lieu - when I accrued as much time off in a year as my holiday entitlement (25 days was my record) this was also stopped.
My boss is behind me and has even told me that should only have my mobile on during office hours (not weekends or annual leave) - he has admitted that it is a sort of hope that one of the systems is down when a "big cheese" wants to use it and I'm not around. He hopes that will start a conversation about the departments budget. A far from ideal situation but it might get the point across.
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
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