March 5, 2016 at 10:16 am
iposner (3/4/2016)
djackson 22568 (3/4/2016)
Very nicely said, Andy, much nicer than I want to word it. 🙂This is meant to be about SQL Server, but djackson 22568 seems to prefer writing fiction:
Has it every occurred to you that you are being lied to?
Has it ever occurred to you that most of us learned how to get along with people in kindergarten? Personal attacks just show weakness.
Dave
March 7, 2016 at 7:46 am
djackson 22568 (3/4/2016)
However what the media doesn't tell you is that every country that has national insurance has huge waiting lists for lots of things, including as much as a two year wait to see an oncologist!
Two years to see an oncologist?! I defy you to name a single country where that is the case, backed up with hard statistics. Just from a basic common sense perspective, who would be left they could treat after a wait of two years with cancer (you're aware that's what Oncology is)? It'd be a pretty quiet department.
As someone who has been previously, and am currently, employed by one, the UK NHS I can tell you for an absolute fact the clinicians target getting in patients with symptoms like that within days for a consultation, and same for any European country I know about. In one hospital I was involved in developing the reporting on referrals to help them do just that, so it's not just an assertion plucked out of the ether, either.
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
March 7, 2016 at 1:21 pm
I work in the Healthcare and Group Benefits Consulting field in the United States. Just FYI for anybody reading: many employers conduct what are called "Dependent Eligibility Audits". These have been common practice for health benefits for several decades. Until recently they have focused on whether the children covered by your plan are qualified under your plan, but as Spousal Surcharge has become more and more of a thing in the market spouses have been part of those projects too.
March 7, 2016 at 2:31 pm
adam.hoelscher (3/7/2016)
I work in the Healthcare and Group Benefits Consulting field in the United States. Just FYI for anybody reading: many employers conduct what are called "Dependent Eligibility Audits". These have been common practice for health benefits for several decades. Until recently they have focused on whether the children covered by your plan are qualified under your plan, but as Spousal Surcharge has become more and more of a thing in the market spouses have been part of those projects too.
Something new this year (or maybe it started last year) is that I have to provide marriage certificate and copy of last filed tax return proving my wife and I and indeed married. It makes sense; I can see how some may abuse the system.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 8, 2016 at 7:15 am
Our organization health care premiums are per person. So if you have four family members to cover then it would be the rate X 4. We have several plans to choose from and the orgnization gives us a break on the employee being covered. So for me and my spouse ($1000 ded) it is $519 a pay period (24 pay periods a year). Our organization pays me back $214 a pay period. But if I were to add my two children it would cost $1038 a pay period. Kinda pricey in my estimation.
March 10, 2016 at 4:36 pm
erb2000 (3/4/2016)
I am on my wife's insurance and want a bonus from my employer for not using our insurance here! I am saving them money.
I'd be surprised if you got that bonus.
March 10, 2016 at 4:37 pm
I'm just glad to have an employer that allows me to put my spouse on coverage.
March 14, 2016 at 8:47 am
andrew gothard (3/7/2016)
djackson 22568 (3/4/2016)
However what the media doesn't tell you is that every country that has national insurance has huge waiting lists for lots of things, including as much as a two year wait to see an oncologist!
Two years to see an oncologist?! I defy you to name a single country where that is the case...
Can't back it up but I too didn't believe "2 years" was realistic until I rode a 40 minute shuttle bus from Clearwater to Tampa airport and during that time a woman from Canada made mention of it. She said it's not unusual for doctor appointments to take 2 years. I gasped and asked her to repeat that and she did. She said they only schedule appointments for routine things. She then mentioned having to schedule an "emergency" appointment for her ailing mother in the U.S. to see a doc at the Cleveland Clinic. They weren't worried about the cost as much as they were the time. Her mom needed attention now, not 2 years from now. Social medicine sounds great on paper.
March 14, 2016 at 9:45 am
thisisfutile (3/14/2016)
Can't back it up but I too didn't believe "2 years" was realistic until I rode a 40 minute shuttle bus from Clearwater to Tampa airport and during that time a woman from Canada made mention of it. She said it's not unusual for doctor appointments to take 2 years. I gasped and asked her to repeat that and she did. She said they only schedule appointments for routine things. She then mentioned having to schedule an "emergency" appointment for her ailing mother in the U.S. to see a doc at the Cleveland Clinic. They weren't worried about the cost as much as they were the time. Her mom needed attention now, not 2 years from now. Social medicine sounds great on paper.
Well you can be sure the "emergency" appointment was not for an emergency nor an oncologist. I've lived in two countries with socialised medicine. In both countries, appointments are prioritised on the basis of the gravity of the conditions that are likely to be diagnosed from the symptoms. So hip-replacements are further down the priority list than many other conditions, which are further down the list than life-threatening conditions such as cancer, aneurisms, etc.
Social medicine is not only great on paper - it's pretty good in reality too: Should you fall ill, or your family fall on hard times, you can rely on a fairly decent health service that, while not offering 5-star treatment, provides treatment free at the point of delivery.
It's also far better than the broken system you have in the States, where you pay vast sums of money to enrich the drug companies, not to mention the insurance companies, saddled as they/you are with the cost of litigation and awards for punitive damages. I should know - my wife's American and has experienced both systems - and she wouldn't trade the imperfect National Health System for the US system.
Ask yourself the question, if almost every other developed nation has a form of socialised medicine, how can they all be wrong and the US (with its shorter life-expectancy) right?
March 14, 2016 at 4:27 pm
I have a friend from here in England who lives near Boulder, Colorado (and has done so for over a dozen years) and apart from the BBC the thing he misses most is the NHS.
He has plenty of anecdotes and is a well paid programmer with health care so what it is like for your less well off (or even poor) I dread to think.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 14, 2016 at 8:24 pm
iposner (3/14/2016)
...appointments are prioritised on the basis of the gravity of the conditions...
So if it's so good to be given a number and told to stand in line, why did this woman and her family come to the US instead of just waiting? You are right, it wasn't an emergency (which is why I used quotes) of the State but it must have been very important to this family. If I understand social medicine, someone in your government gets to look at the data and then deem your situation less important? No way. When it comes to health, I work and pay my premiums then I go to a doctor that I choose. If the time comes that I need his expertise to fix my problem, however small or big, I'm simply at the mercy of his and his colleagues' schedules. To put that in perspective, a hang-nail or open heart surgery, either can be done that week or that day, depending on the gravity of course.
March 15, 2016 at 3:25 am
thisisfutile (3/14/2016)
iposner (3/14/2016)
...appointments are prioritised on the basis of the gravity of the conditions...So if it's so good to be given a number and told to stand in line, why did this woman and her family come to the US instead of just waiting? You are right, it wasn't an emergency (which is why I used quotes) of the State but it must have been very important to this family. If I understand social medicine, someone in your government gets to look at the data and then deem your situation less important? No way. When it comes to health, I work and pay my premiums then I go to a doctor that I choose. If the time comes that I need his expertise to fix my problem, however small or big, I'm simply at the mercy of his and his colleagues' schedules. To put that in perspective, a hang-nail or open heart surgery, either can be done that week or that day, depending on the gravity of course.
You don't understand social medicine. No one in the government decides who gets seen and who is pushed down the road - that role is either filled by a central medical authority (like https://www.nice.org.uk/ in the UK) or by medical personnel. And having social medicine does not preclude private medicine - your Canadian friend could have gone to private Canadian doctor, as I can to a private UK doctor if I so wish. So I too can have anything done in the same timescales you do with my private medical insurance. The difference is that I pay a minute fraction for it than you pay for yours, because I, like many other people, don't use it very often. I go to the NHS.
Social medicine isn't an "either/or" choice with private medicine. You can have both, as most developed countries do.
March 17, 2016 at 7:18 am
Kevin Ray (3/8/2016)
Our organization health care premiums are per person. So if you have four family members to cover then it would be the rate X 4. We have several plans to choose from and the orgnization gives us a break on the employee being covered. So for me and my spouse ($1000 ded) it is $519 a pay period (24 pay periods a year). Our organization pays me back $214 a pay period. But if I were to add my two children it would cost $1038 a pay period. Kinda pricey in my estimation.
Wow. That's frightening
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
March 17, 2016 at 7:48 am
thisisfutile (3/14/2016)
andrew gothard (3/7/2016)
djackson 22568 (3/4/2016)
However what the media doesn't tell you is that every country that has national insurance has huge waiting lists for lots of things, including as much as a two year wait to see an oncologist!
Two years to see an oncologist?! I defy you to name a single country where that is the case...
Can't back it up but I too didn't believe "2 years" was realistic until I rode a 40 minute shuttle bus from Clearwater to Tampa airport and during that time a woman from Canada made mention of it. She said it's not unusual for doctor appointments to take 2 years. I gasped and asked her to repeat that and she did. She said they only schedule appointments for routine things. She then mentioned having to schedule an "emergency" appointment for her ailing mother in the U.S. to see a doc at the Cleveland Clinic. They weren't worried about the cost as much as they were the time. Her mom needed attention now, not 2 years from now. Social medicine sounds great on paper.
It's great in practice as well. Re: Canadian oncology waiting times, the Frazer Institute has average wits from referral to commencing treatment in Radiology of 4.1 weeks. I'm from the UK, have worked (and currently do) in our NHS system and can tell you waits here are nothing like those mentioned (they vary by specialty). I can normally see my GP within a few days, and my last hospital referral, diabetology, was IIRC a week or so from referral and a bit over a week to start the course on insulin use.
Oh - and http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/25/gp-appointment-waiting-times-in-us-worse-than-nhs
On balance I'd take it over a system that costs over 15% of GDP to run, has over 33 million still uncovered and is the single biggest cause of personal bankruptcy in the country. But each to their own.
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
March 21, 2016 at 7:48 am
thisisfutile (3/14/2016)
iposner (3/14/2016)
...appointments are prioritised on the basis of the gravity of the conditions...So if it's so good to be given a number and told to stand in line, why did this woman and her family come to the US instead of just waiting? You are right, it wasn't an emergency (which is why I used quotes) of the State but it must have been very important to this family. If I understand social medicine, someone in your government gets to look at the data and then deem your situation less important? No way. When it comes to health, I work and pay my premiums then I go to a doctor that I choose. If the time comes that I need his expertise to fix my problem, however small or big, I'm simply at the mercy of his and his colleagues' schedules. To put that in perspective, a hang-nail or open heart surgery, either can be done that week or that day, depending on the gravity of course.
woman and her family come to the US instead of just waiting
No idea given that Canada has private healthcare options if people want them (as does the UK)
If I understand social medicine, someone in your government gets to look at the data and then deem your situation less important
I don't know who told you that, but utter nonsense is the politest thing I can think of to say about it. OTOH, you try getting treatment your IMO wants to withhold, or at a hospital they don't deal with
I'm a DBA.
I'm not paid to solve problems. I'm paid to prevent them.
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