July 17, 2017 at 8:32 am
djackson 22568 - Monday, July 17, 2017 8:25 AMpeter.row - Monday, July 17, 2017 8:03 AMdjackson 22568 - Monday, July 17, 2017 7:56 AMpeter.row - Monday, July 17, 2017 7:33 AMdjackson 22568 - Monday, July 17, 2017 7:27 AMWhat is really important is for them to stop making it easy for every new virus to spread by hiding file extensions by default! The FIRT THING every intelligent person I know does, when building a new PC, is to go in to settings and turn on the ability to see file extensions. Those who remember the Anna Kournikova virus know how long this has been an issue, and MS still refuses to fix it.
Marketing and Development: "Should we fix these security flaws, or add more spyware to the OS? Spyware of course, nobody cares about our stupid customers!"
Technical it's not a security flaw. What you said implies that the spyware virus is using a bug to do it's thing but it's not so there is nothing to "fix".
What you really mean is they should change the default so that less tech savvy users who click anything put in front of them might possibly see the extension and know the difference between something that looks like an image/video file versus one that is an executable.Semantics, and really two separate points. First, MS refuses to fix security flaws, we all know this. How many times have others had to release information to force their hand? They absolutely choose to put our data at risk (to make it "easier" for end users) rather than make things more secure.
As to whether the "hide the extension" issue is a security flaw or not, according to at least one definition, a vulnerability (or flaw) is "a weakness which allows an attacker to reduce a system's information assurance". I think this fits that definition. Even Microsoft's own definition makes this a security flaw, although they hide behind "does the system work as intended", which is of course their biggest issue. They design and build flaws into the OS, choosing profit over security in every case. IMO the only time MS is interested in fixing security is when they can show an ROI, not to say that is different than other companies, but certainly more prominent with them.
Granted these are my opinions, but anyone who keeps up on the industry sees examples of this every day.
Sorry but that rant comes across as quite silly. MS now respond quicker than they ever have done before with Windows 10.
If MS are so useless at security and refuse to fix anything how do you explain how they issued a fix for **Windows XP** after the recent encryption malware attacks given that Windows XP has been out of **extended** support for 3 years! Further to that Windows 10 was immune to it in the first place.Could just be you are one of the old school people that like to use "M$" and refuse to acknowledge how things have changed.
Ah, the argument of little brained people everywhere, when you can't dispute facts, start with personal attacks.
I did dispute the facts - with my example of out of extended support fix for Windows XP and that Windows 10 was immune in the first place.
Thus debunking your rant that MS are rubbish at security and never fix anything even when they know about it.
Saying your post was a "rant" and "quite silly" and question whether you are just one of the old school people that like to bash MS regardless is hardly a personal attack as it all responds directly to what you posted.
July 17, 2017 at 9:17 am
I'd just like to see people start using their heads when naming directories and how they structure directories. For example, having monthly directories stored as MMMYYYY is insane. It defies sorting, which is especially important when trying to find directories that can be dropped due to age. You might thing the created date would be enough until you realize that someone creates a whole year of directories at a time.
--Jeff Moden
July 17, 2017 at 9:23 am
As for naming of files, even if the file system supports longer names and extensions, there is still the issue of screen real-estate, and Windows Explorer doesn't even display file extensions by default, so that information is hidden.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 17, 2017 at 9:30 am
peter.row - Monday, July 17, 2017 6:48 AMrobert.sterbal 56890 - Monday, July 17, 2017 6:40 AMOn a personal note, my 200,000 or so image files are named with YYYY-MM-DD-HH-MM-imgXXXX.jpgI've had to use the dir /X command once in a while to figure out the 8.3 filename.
What kind of value is XXXX?
I just created an empty text file called:
2017-07-12-13-14-imgthis is a really long file name will this make it go weird in command prompt - nope that's not enough how about this will this make the command prompt go weird and all 8-3 on us.txt
and in both standard cmd and powershell it displayed the filename in full on Win10 64bit Ent.
Typically XXXX are sequential values from img0001 to img9999 until I move the pictures off the camera and to my hard drive.
412-977-3526 call/text
July 17, 2017 at 9:42 am
Why are we still typing? Umm, it's 2017, not 1817. If I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like. But, as long computers continue to use a 200-year-old input interface, I will continue to type the shortest filename that I can think of. Bah, humbug.
July 17, 2017 at 10:03 am
djackson 22568 - Monday, July 17, 2017 7:27 AMThe FIRT THING every intelligent person I know does, when building a new PC, is to go in to settings and turn on the ability to see file extensions.
I have to agree with this point, that always drives me nuts that Windows wants to hide the file extension by default. I can live with 3 or 4 character extensions, I still want to see what that extension is instead of just relying on the icon in Windows Explorer.
July 17, 2017 at 10:48 am
Sinisa Jazic - Monday, July 17, 2017 9:42 AMWhy are we still typing? Umm, it's 2017, not 1817. If I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like. But, as long computers continue to use a 200-year-old input interface, I will continue to type the shortest filename that I can think of. Bah, humbug.
BWAAAA-HAAAAA!!!! If most people could talk to an OS, the OS would get confused and self destruct! 😉
--Jeff Moden
July 17, 2017 at 10:56 am
Chris Harshman - Monday, July 17, 2017 10:03 AMdjackson 22568 - Monday, July 17, 2017 7:27 AMThe FIRT THING every intelligent person I know does, when building a new PC, is to go in to settings and turn on the ability to see file extensions.
I have to agree with this point, that always drives me nuts that Windows wants to hide the file extension by default. I can live with 3 or 4 character extensions, I still want to see what that extension is instead of just relying on the icon in Windows Explorer.
WHUT!!!??? You don't trust the fact that a .CSV file will have an Excel ICON??? 😀😛:sick:
--Jeff Moden
July 17, 2017 at 11:07 am
Sinisa Jazic - Monday, July 17, 2017 9:42 AMWhy are we still typing? Umm, it's 2017, not 1817. If I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like. But, as long computers continue to use a 200-year-old input interface, I will continue to type the shortest filename that I can think of. Bah, humbug.
I can't see that working well. Spoken language is too vague, similar sounding words can have different spellings, and many character strings in file names might not be true words at all. Keyboard is unambiguous (besides do you really want to be in an environment where co-workers are constantly talking to their computers??)
Our SQL databases have information from a number or sources and we see contrasts with table and field names. The tables and fields we download from the AS400 are straight 8 character, upper case and numbers only. Incomprehensible, may as well be encrypted. On the other end of the spectrum are the databases from our marketing software. The woman who administers that data believes in long names, practically a full sentence (I think you could identify a subject and predicate in many of them). More helpful than the AS400, but perhaps a little overdone. Even though (thankfully) SQL server is not case sensitive (I tend to ignore case, to my peril), she is meticulous about case as well. More helpful than the AS400, but perhaps a little overdone.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
July 17, 2017 at 11:22 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, July 17, 2017 10:48 AMSinisa Jazic - Monday, July 17, 2017 9:42 AMWhy are we still typing? Umm, it's 2017, not 1817. If I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like. But, as long computers continue to use a 200-year-old input interface, I will continue to type the shortest filename that I can think of. Bah, humbug.BWAAAA-HAAAAA!!!! If most people could talk to an OS, the OS would get confused and self destruct! 😉
I don't know how often my car misinterprets what I am saying...
me - "What is playing?"
car - silence
me (becoming impatient) - "cancel"
car - "calling home"
I'd have sooooo many poorly named files and folders if I could talk to my computer... Or I'd be accidentally formatting my disk every day.
me - "Rename folder pics to pictures"
computer - "format C:\ /autotest?"
me - "NO!"
computer - "formatting C:\ /autotest"
But, going back to the OP, I like the linux system where each file has a specific header that identifies the file type. You can call your image "thisis.dumb" and it can see that the header (the "magic number") says it is a jpg and it'll open with your jpg viewer. Now, I also see how this can easily get messy as you could create an exe (or equivalent), give it the mspaint logo and call it "awesome.jpg" and users would double click on it not realizing it is an executable. linux gets around this with the executable flag on a file, but that would require re-writing the FAT/NTFS file structure. So, I think there is no universal solution to the problem. Windows aims at being user friendly and doesn't care about file content when looking at what should open a file; simply looks at the extention.
As for the auto-complete that was suggested, that is already implemented from my understanding. Which tool is missing it? From what I can see, CMD has it, powershell has it and any application that uses a folderpicker object has it.
Something to note - if I am not mistaken, the file/folder character limit is a limit imposed by the file allocation table on the FAT and NTFS filesystems, not on the OS. A windows formatted disk (FAT32 or NTFS) read on a Linux OS will still have the same limitations. It is the same problem with FAT32 and large files (larger than 4 GB). NTFS and exFAT got around that and there were some tweaks you could do to FAT32, but they were unsupported and could result in disk corruption and thus were not recommended.
Also, in the event that you have a file/folder path that is too long, you can use symbolic links and/or junctions to shorten the path. I had that issue at one point, so now I have the folder C:\pf that points to C:\program files and that helped shorten things up nicely.
And to comment on djackson 22568's arguments against Windows; the reason that Windows hides file extensions by default is that the average end user doesn't care about the extentions. Windows is aimed at being "user friendly" and most non-technical end users don't like seeing "solitare.lnk" on their desktops or any of the default hidden files. The average Windows user likes things to look uncluttered. And as for your claim that Microsoft refuses to fix security flaws, you should look at their monthly patches that they release. Majority of these are security related bug fixes. And before you say that Microsoft is slow at fixing their bugs, remember that a Linux kernel bug that was in the kernel for over 10 years was found and fixed this year. When bugs get reported, they generally get fixed quickly based on the severity of the bug. A bug in solitare for example that allows you to cheat at the game and win would be low priority. A security flaw in NTLM that allows for administrative access during the failover from Kerberos to NTLM authentication; that gets fixed quickly.
No piece of software is bug free unless the software is so trivial that bugs are not possible. Heck, even notepad had a bug on older systems - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts. This was patched in Windows 7 I believe and hasn't persisted to windows 8, 8.1 or 10.
iPhones have bugs, android phones have bugs, linux has bugs, MAC OS has bugs... pretty much every system has bugs. If you can find an OS that has no bugs in it, the OS is very trivial OR there is no benefit in finding and fixing the bugs.
The above is all just my opinion on what you should do.
As with all advice you find on a random internet forum - you shouldn't blindly follow it. Always test on a test server to see if there is negative side effects before making changes to live!
I recommend you NEVER run "random code" you found online on any system you care about UNLESS you understand and can verify the code OR you don't care if the code trashes your system.
July 17, 2017 at 11:32 am
the reason that Windows hides file extensions by default is that the average end user doesn't care about the extentions. Windows is aimed at being "user friendly" and most non-technical end users don't like seeing "solitare.lnk" on their desktops or any of the default hidden files. The average Windows user likes things to look uncluttered.
I suppose that's their argument, but it still makes things worse. Ever try to help a user on the phone when they see a whole bunch of listings of 'myfile' and don't know which one you want them to click: myfile.exe, myfile.dat, myfile.msi, myfile.cfg, myfile.ini etc
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
July 17, 2017 at 11:37 am
bmg002 - Monday, July 17, 2017 11:22 AMthe reason that Windows hides file extensions by default is that the average end user doesn't care about the extentions. Windows is aimed at being "user friendly" and most non-technical end users don't like seeing "solitare.lnk" on their desktops or any of the default hidden files. The average Windows user likes things to look uncluttered.
I suppose that's their argument, but it still makes things worse. Ever try to help a user on the phone when they see a whole bunch of listings of 'myfile' and don't know which one you want them to click: myfile.exe, myfile.dat, myfile.msi, myfile.cfg, myfile.ini etc
Heh... it's easy, right? Just tell them to click on the one with the Excel icon. 😉
You're probably right about why the default is to hide extensions but I consider that to be a form of continuing to teach the general public learned-helplessness.
--Jeff Moden
July 17, 2017 at 11:52 am
jay-h - Monday, July 17, 2017 11:32 AMbmg002 - Monday, July 17, 2017 11:22 AMthe reason that Windows hides file extensions by default is that the average end user doesn't care about the extentions. Windows is aimed at being "user friendly" and most non-technical end users don't like seeing "solitare.lnk" on their desktops or any of the default hidden files. The average Windows user likes things to look uncluttered.
I suppose that's their argument, but it still makes things worse. Ever try to help a user on the phone when they see a whole bunch of listings of 'myfile' and don't know which one you want them to click: myfile.exe, myfile.dat, myfile.msi, myfile.cfg, myfile.ini etc
Heh... it's easy, right? Just tell them to click on the one with the Excel icon. 😉
You're probably right about why the default is to hide extensions but I consider that to be a form of continuing to teach the general public learned-helplessness.
Yeah... I have had to deal with that before. I think the problem is how the System was designed vs how the application designers want it to work. A well designed application will put shortcuts on the start menu and/or the desktop on a windows computer. That is how windows was designed to be used. Pictures should go into the users profile pictures folder organized as they see fit. Music in the music folder, etc.
The Windows system was designed with the intention that the folder you are putting files into is the place where technical peopel can work with. The place the average end user should be touching that file should be the start menu OR their desktop.
So, if you tell an end user to run "myfile", you would be telling them to "click on start, all programs, myfile, myflie". OR, failing that and assuming they are using a default install of windows which has indexing turned on, they would click on start and type in "myfile" and then wait a few seconds for Windows to check the index cache and path environment variable and then run myfile.
The problem comes in when an application either doesn't create startmenu or desktop shortcuts OR it is an application that doesn't require an installer. The first case goes against the Windows design and thus I would say the fault there is the applicaiton designers. The second case is usually because the tool is more advanced than what an average user would run and in this case if the end user can't figure it out, they should just drop the computer off at a repair shop and let them deal with it.
That being said, I did work in the IT industry for a brief period (2 years professionally, 15 unprofessionally) and I ran into all sorts of odd problems and had a horrid time explaining things over the phone to people... and SO many of them thought that since it was an "easy (for me) problem", it meant I could explain it over the phone or come over and fix it for free (or super cheap). I no longer do IT work for anybody outside of immediate family as it drives me nuts when I have to explain to people that when their power is out, they can't connect to the internet from their laptop or when they try to tell me that the have an 8 GB hard drive and 1 TB of RAM and that they know more than I ever will about computers... Plus, I think I have more problems with my computers than anyone I've ever helped with their computers LOL. But that is because after working 8 hours on a computer, the last thing I want to do is go home and spend another 8 hours fixing mine. If it turns on I'm happy... if it doesn't, then it is tomorrows problem.
I think a lot of computer problems (viruses, malware, inappropriate setups, slow systems, etc) are caused by ignorance more than anything else... My desktop at home right now, I've narrowed the problem down to being power related, but I am not sure if the battery is dead, the power supply is too small, or something is shorting out or grounding and causing power related problems. But that is tomorrows problem.
The above is all just my opinion on what you should do.
As with all advice you find on a random internet forum - you shouldn't blindly follow it. Always test on a test server to see if there is negative side effects before making changes to live!
I recommend you NEVER run "random code" you found online on any system you care about UNLESS you understand and can verify the code OR you don't care if the code trashes your system.
July 17, 2017 at 12:05 pm
bmg002 - Monday, July 17, 2017 11:22 AMJeff Moden - Monday, July 17, 2017 10:48 AMSinisa Jazic - Monday, July 17, 2017 9:42 AMWhy are we still typing? Umm, it's 2017, not 1817. If I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like. But, as long computers continue to use a 200-year-old input interface, I will continue to type the shortest filename that I can think of. Bah, humbug.BWAAAA-HAAAAA!!!! If most people could talk to an OS, the OS would get confused and self destruct! 😉
I don't know how often my car misinterprets what I am saying...
me - "What is playing?"
car - silence
me (becoming impatient) - "cancel"
car - "calling home"I'd have sooooo many poorly named files and folders if I could talk to my computer... Or I'd be accidentally formatting my disk every day.
me - "Rename folder pics to pictures"
computer - "format C:\ /autotest?"
me - "NO!"
computer - "formatting C:\ /autotest"But, going back to the OP, I like the linux system where each file has a specific header that identifies the file type. You can call your image "thisis.dumb" and it can see that the header (the "magic number") says it is a jpg and it'll open with your jpg viewer. Now, I also see how this can easily get messy as you could create an exe (or equivalent), give it the mspaint logo and call it "awesome.jpg" and users would double click on it not realizing it is an executable. linux gets around this with the executable flag on a file, but that would require re-writing the FAT/NTFS file structure. So, I think there is no universal solution to the problem. Windows aims at being user friendly and doesn't care about file content when looking at what should open a file; simply looks at the extention.
As for the auto-complete that was suggested, that is already implemented from my understanding. Which tool is missing it? From what I can see, CMD has it, powershell has it and any application that uses a folderpicker object has it.Something to note - if I am not mistaken, the file/folder character limit is a limit imposed by the file allocation table on the FAT and NTFS filesystems, not on the OS. A windows formatted disk (FAT32 or NTFS) read on a Linux OS will still have the same limitations. It is the same problem with FAT32 and large files (larger than 4 GB). NTFS and exFAT got around that and there were some tweaks you could do to FAT32, but they were unsupported and could result in disk corruption and thus were not recommended.
Also, in the event that you have a file/folder path that is too long, you can use symbolic links and/or junctions to shorten the path. I had that issue at one point, so now I have the folder C:\pf that points to C:\program files and that helped shorten things up nicely.
And to comment on djackson 22568's arguments against Windows; the reason that Windows hides file extensions by default is that the average end user doesn't care about the extentions. Windows is aimed at being "user friendly" and most non-technical end users don't like seeing "solitare.lnk" on their desktops or any of the default hidden files. The average Windows user likes things to look uncluttered. And as for your claim that Microsoft refuses to fix security flaws, you should look at their monthly patches that they release. Majority of these are security related bug fixes. And before you say that Microsoft is slow at fixing their bugs, remember that a Linux kernel bug that was in the kernel for over 10 years was found and fixed this year. When bugs get reported, they generally get fixed quickly based on the severity of the bug. A bug in solitare for example that allows you to cheat at the game and win would be low priority. A security flaw in NTLM that allows for administrative access during the failover from Kerberos to NTLM authentication; that gets fixed quickly.
No piece of software is bug free unless the software is so trivial that bugs are not possible. Heck, even notepad had a bug on older systems - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts. This was patched in Windows 7 I believe and hasn't persisted to windows 8, 8.1 or 10.
iPhones have bugs, android phones have bugs, linux has bugs, MAC OS has bugs... pretty much every system has bugs. If you can find an OS that has no bugs in it, the OS is very trivial OR there is no benefit in finding and fixing the bugs.
I think its more about the relative number of occurrences that we're commenting on. For example, I like how Mr. Daniel Bernstein guarantees his programming against "security holes" which we could consider as bugs, granted he's not writing operating systems, but still with internet facing daemons secure software really goes a long ways, and the guy literally pays $1k bug bounties out of his pocket. As a counter example, Lennart Poettering, of Redhat's systemd project is writing software in such a way that its becoming a large monolith of tightly coupled logic that increasingly is replacing better known software systems and its becoming a source of poorly understood bugs, its getting so bad that folks are bailing to the BSD's and Lennart actually gets death threats. Think about this, when is the last time a consumer of your programming efforts have sent you death threats because of your actions?
If you haven't heard of the gianourmous flame war that took place when systemd started getting adopted by Linux distributions you should check it out, I've been putzing around with Linux for quite some years now and I've never seen anything like it.
Check out the below link, one of my favorite systemd "not a bug" arguments, pay close attention to the fact that this will not get fixed.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14682210
(mistakes in usernames result in root privileges, but will not be fixed because "not a bug" )
July 17, 2017 at 12:07 pm
Sinisa Jazic - Monday, July 17, 2017 9:42 AMIf I could talk to an OS (HAL 9000) then I would refer to a file by any name I like.
LOL I can see it now... "Open up that file that I was working on Friday that had that weird stuff in it with those numbers that didn't balance right"
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