August 17, 2009 at 8:51 pm
The point is not seeing you $$ for value, its management who feels that they saves $$ by outsourcing. If the quality of service was so bad and all the work was useless. I don't think that any sensible managment in the world can afford to outsource keep going.
You can move to management itself to save your future jobs 🙂
August 18, 2009 at 1:18 am
It will be a cold day in hell, before I even think about moving into management, havent sunk that low 😛
Just found out that the client I am working for atm, has just outsourced to HCL. The sense of impending doom is approaching.
Checking them out on the net. I find some interesting quotes from their CEO
"When questioned about his firm's US hiring, Information Week reports that Vineet Nayar, the CEO of the Indian outsourcing giant HCL Technologies, showed he can stereotype with the best of them, telling an audience in NYC that most American tech grads are 'unemployable.' Explaining that Americans are far less willing than students from developing economies like India, China, and Brazil to master the 'boring' details of tech process and methodology, the HCL chief added that most Americans are just too expensive to train. HCL, which was reportedly awarded a secretive $170 million outsourcing contract by Microsoft last April, gets a personal thumbs-up from Steve Ballmer for 'walking the extra mile.' Ballmer was busy last week pitching more H-1B visas as the cure for America's job ills at The National Summit."
I have also seen another quote from this CEO, saying 'Americans suck at IT'.
I have also seen a post on these forums, where someone has said that their developers are terrible 😛
My contract renewal is up in 7 weeks, if they try and force me to sign with HCL. It will be time for this old soldier to move on and find another battlefield 😛
anyone else had dealings with HCL, love to hear your experiences.
~Silverfox~
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August 18, 2009 at 7:45 am
What's HCL?
I'm after wary of outsourcing companies since they are so cost driven as to place that above being effective. That can be frustrating.
If your CEO thinks the US is that bad, perhaps it's just time to move on.
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August 18, 2009 at 7:49 am
HCL is an indian company providing IT outsourcing services.
August 18, 2009 at 7:50 am
well Steve m8, the Quotes are from the CEO of HCL and HCL is
HCL Technologies http://www.hcltech.com
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August 18, 2009 at 7:59 am
Well, thanks, and I don't think I'll be working for HCL anytime soon either!
Maybe I should send him a large quantity of posts from this forum? There are plenty of Americans answering questions and doing work for people overseas here. 😛
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August 18, 2009 at 8:12 am
Silverfox (8/17/2009)
Isnt India the main supply of outsourcing... and isnt its economy very much IT based.
Agriculture still accounts for 60% of employment, followed by the service industry which accounts for around 28%. Though the last decade has seen exponential growth in the servicing industry(coz of relatively cheap labor), agriculture is still the pillar of India's economy.
August 18, 2009 at 9:09 am
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
Just found out that the client I am working for atm, has just outsourced to HCL. The sense of impending doom is approaching.Checking them out on the net. I find some interesting quotes from their CEO
"When questioned about his firm's US hiring, Information Week reports that Vineet Nayar, the CEO of the Indian outsourcing giant HCL Technologies, showed he can stereotype with the best of them, telling an audience in NYC that most American tech grads are 'unemployable.' Explaining that Americans are far less willing than students from developing economies like India, China, and Brazil to master the 'boring' details of tech process and methodology, the HCL chief added that most Americans are just too expensive to train. HCL, which was reportedly awarded a secretive $170 million outsourcing contract by Microsoft last April, gets a personal thumbs-up from Steve Ballmer for 'walking the extra mile.' Ballmer was busy last week pitching more H-1B visas as the cure for America's job ills at The National Summit."
I have also seen another quote from this CEO, saying 'Americans suck at IT'.
Do you care to cite the source of the quote ('Americans suck at IT')?
As for Mr. Nayar, it's pathetic that he is not original even when bad-mouthing (I restrain myself of thinking how original he wants his employees to be). He took this statement from Mr. Narayan Murthy (founder of Infosys Technologies) and put a spin on it. Mr. Murthy had made those remarks about Indian engineers way back in 2006. [url=http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/04/stories/2006010407060400.htm]Reference[/url]
I was further appalled that press instead of tearing this guy up played to the gallery and started a debate on truth in his remarks. :sick:
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
I have also seen a post on these forums, where someone has said that their developers are terrible 😛
You don't have to read it elsewhere; I guess, you said you have experienced it first hand (unless the guys in the previous post were from some other outsourcing company). 😛
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
My contract renewal is up in 7 weeks, if they try and force me to sign with HCL. It will be time for this old soldier to move on and find another battlefield 😛
If signing with HCL means you work alone (not required to interact with their employees) at the same pay rate (or higher -- you never know), I would suggest giving it a shot. If it doesn't turn out OK, kick the job then. And also there's no surety that the other company you join will not have a DBA (Indian or otherwise) who sucks the same, as described in your post earlier.
August 18, 2009 at 9:22 am
ps (8/18/2009)
Silverfox (8/17/2009)
Isnt India the main supply of outsourcing... and isnt its economy very much IT based.Agriculture still accounts for 60% of employment, followed by the service industry which accounts for around 28%. Though the last decade has seen exponential growth in the servicing industry(coz of relatively cheap labor), agriculture is still the pillar of India's economy.
In fact that shows badly on India's efficiency that 60% of work force contributes just 17% to GDP. And the interpretation of these numbers become more twisted to see that 28% of the workforce contributes to 54% of GDP, which is primarily more because of the outsourcing and dollar value involved and not efficiency. {source Wikipedia}
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that GDP was the primary factor indicating a country's growth. And from that point, I see that India's economy is more based on services sector than agriculture.
August 18, 2009 at 9:56 am
rjv_rnjn (8/18/2009)
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
Just found out that the client I am working for atm, has just outsourced to HCL. The sense of impending doom is approaching.Checking them out on the net. I find some interesting quotes from their CEO
"When questioned about his firm's US hiring, Information Week reports that Vineet Nayar, the CEO of the Indian outsourcing giant HCL Technologies, showed he can stereotype with the best of them, telling an audience in NYC that most American tech grads are 'unemployable.' Explaining that Americans are far less willing than students from developing economies like India, China, and Brazil to master the 'boring' details of tech process and methodology, the HCL chief added that most Americans are just too expensive to train. HCL, which was reportedly awarded a secretive $170 million outsourcing contract by Microsoft last April, gets a personal thumbs-up from Steve Ballmer for 'walking the extra mile.' Ballmer was busy last week pitching more H-1B visas as the cure for America's job ills at The National Summit."
I have also seen another quote from this CEO, saying 'Americans suck at IT'.
Do you care to cite the source of the quote ('Americans suck at IT')?
As for Mr. Nayar, it's pathetic that he is not original even when bad-mouthing (I restrain myself of thinking how original he wants his employees to be). He took this statement from Mr. Narayan Murthy (founder of Infosys Technologies) and put a spin on it. Mr. Murthy had made those remarks about Indian engineers way back in 2006. [url=http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/04/stories/2006010407060400.htm]Reference[/url]
I was further appalled that press instead of tearing this guy up played to the gallery and started a debate on truth in his remarks. :sick:
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
I have also seen a post on these forums, where someone has said that their developers are terrible 😛You don't have to read it elsewhere; I guess, you said you have experienced it first hand (unless the guys in the previous post were from some other outsourcing company). 😛
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
My contract renewal is up in 7 weeks, if they try and force me to sign with HCL. It will be time for this old soldier to move on and find another battlefield 😛If signing with HCL means you work alone (not required to interact with their employees) at the same pay rate (or higher -- you never know), I would suggest giving it a shot. If it doesn't turn out OK, kick the job then. And also there's no surety that the other company you join will not have a DBA (Indian or otherwise) who sucks the same, as described in your post earlier.
Just for you
http://www.thelonelygeek.com/?p=312&cpage=1
That is only one of many, do you also want to know about when HCL sent a internal email to its indian engineers telling them to work longer hours for no pay, for the glory of the company.
I can give you stories about most of the outsourcing companies out there, none of them good.
To answer your other questions, I dont mind who I work with, I just have this thing about not wanting to work for outsourcers who abuse their workforce and rip off companies who are coerced into using them.
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August 18, 2009 at 10:44 am
My old company used to outsource to HCL. After a couple months, every developer in the company refused to work with them. Every time they sent us the codes, we had to re-do it. It took us twice amount of time to develop anything. Of course if the code did not work, the management blamed us instead of our wonderful partner. One time one of their developer sent me a SQL statement that had syntax error. 'Test' is not in their dictionary.
One of my co-worker told them to write a report and put the grand total on a new page. They put the grand total on a 'blank' new page - no title, no heading, no nothing!!!! You need to give them a very good specification for everything - also liked writing psudo code.
August 18, 2009 at 11:31 am
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
http://www.thelonelygeek.com/?p=312&cpage=1%5B/quote%5D Well, again, that's not Nayar's statement; it's the bloggers opinion.
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
That is only one of many, do you also want to know about when HCL sent a internal email to its indian engineers telling them to work longer hours for no pay, for the glory of the company.
I'm not sure if asking your employees to put in extra hours for projects is illegal. All of us do it at our places and it's not only IT, the marketing and other staff too work overtime and I think the motivation is in the year end bonus. Whatever the case, DOL acts upon any complaints that come up and act swiftly (ref).
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
To answer your other questions, I dont mind who I work with, I just have this thing about not wanting to work for outsourcers who abuse their workforce and rip off companies who are coerced into using them.
These were not my questions. 🙂 To think of it, you working for them would lend voice to those abused workforce, who otherwise are so subdued to even ask for their rights.
August 19, 2009 at 1:28 am
True but it is implied, I might let you get away with that one :-P, although I am sure I have actually seen the quote else where.
this is the link for the extra hours, and if it was normal policy. I wouldnt be able to see it on the net 🙂
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/11/hcl_hours/
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August 20, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Maybe I should send him a large quantity of posts from this forum? There are plenty of Americans answering questions and doing work for people overseas here
How ironic would it be if people from the (overseas) outsourcing firm were posting questions here and receiving assistance from those who were displaced from their jobs by the move to outsourcing in the first place?
just sayin'
😉
August 20, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Ivanna Noh (8/20/2009)
@SteveMaybe I should send him a large quantity of posts from this forum? There are plenty of Americans answering questions and doing work for people overseas here
How ironic would it be if people from the (overseas) outsourcing firm were posting questions here and receiving assistance from those who were displaced from their jobs by the move to outsourcing in the first place?
just sayin'
😉
It happens.
Quite often, when posting, I realize that I'm hurting some contractor who would otherwise get paid for what I'm doing for free. I realize I'm possibly causing someone to lose a job because a less talented person is doing the work and getting free support.
At the same time, I'm helping someone keep a job that they are quite possibly growing in to. I'm helping a company that might otherwise have to lay someone off to afford a contractor. And so on.
It cuts both ways. I take responsibility for both direct effects and side effects.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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