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Edward W. Stanley SSCertifiable Points: 6462 More actions · Answer 1

Fallen, its not about whether its regarding SQL server or not... its your idiocy.. you did not answer my question.... no surprise there... do you actually believe your own post... "you are a chinese person afraid of indians"

and as for vinne ....'something to hide'... yeah right ... another glib remark who has now earned my preferred pez dispenser list... with fallen as well...

but shushy is too much above this tripe ...

vinny_1973 SSCommitted Points: 1732 More actions · Answer 2

CROSS THREADING :

GPF ... ru a Christian by any chance!??

sushila SSC-Dedicated Points: 35293 More actions · Answer 3

GPF^... - stop being so militant - where's the guy who was prescribing "group hugs" a while ago...bring him back!!!

ps:If GPF^ is a "Christian"...I'll die laughing all the way to my grave!!!

**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!**

Paul Cresham Hall of Fame Points: 3623 More actions · Answer 4

What? No-one's picked up on the spelling of "colour" in the original post?

I despair.

sushila SSC-Dedicated Points: 35293 More actions · Answer 5

Paul - you may be "cross threading" as well - what original post...the one by sean - by steve...?!?!?!?!?!

**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!**

Fallen Angel Ten Centuries Points: 1128 More actions · Answer 6

GPF2^192

I am not afraid of Indian or anyone (especially not you..... how dare you call me an idiot!)

I am upset with my company's policy of outsourcing to India. Actually it is ok to outsource but at least please find a company with good developers not just some warm bodies. If I do not do a good job or anyone in my company does not do a good job, there is probation, warning and pink slip. But it does not apply to any developers in the outsourcing company. As a matter of fact, anything goes wrong, we have to take the heat for them. That is unfair.

My company chose to deliver loucy products in order to save a few dimes. They will suffer in a long run. They also lost good developers (some already left because of the outsourcing problem. I am on my way.) Recently they posted a few developers job and received very few applications. I was surprised because I did not think the market was that hot. It is a very small world in IT business, when people learns what my company does, good developers will not apply.

Edward W. Stanley SSCertifiable Points: 6462 More actions · Answer 7

And I again quote:

"How many Indian is working in your company right now? "

"But these day, the Indians are invincible."

"It is a very small world in IT business, when people learns what my company does, good developers will not apply."

"They are holding the 'RACISM' card, so they can do a loucy job but they are here to stay."

You are right; I'm wrong; idiocy is an over-qualification.

And for the record I'm a druidic hedgerow evangelist (reformed).

Shushy pass me the smokes.

Sameer Raval Hall of Fame Points: 3214 More actions · Answer 8

Fallen Angel,

What’s your problem. Why you’re here working with Americans in their company. Your boss is not getting on your nerves with his ascent.

Let me ask you one question, were you born with American ascent in China ?

Do you feel your parents get on your nerves when they talk to you in Chinese language?

I know your company made honest mistake by taking you like human being on board without knowing much of your core thoughts.

Your company knows the business, and for your information India and Indians are far ahead in technology than China by any standards.

Now listen I have one story to tell you based on fact [not fiction] just for you….

I have purchased few toys for my son from walmart, that turns out nothing but piece of junk from walmart. I know I should blame walmart for that or myself for buying from their right, Instead what your thought suggest is I should blame that it is all made in China and that is why you see walmart associates always happy for returns to throw it back to their Chinese counter part.

But has any Indian complained about that.That’s the difference my friend,

Please do not post all absurd details, I request to stop this thread and one last thing for my Indian friends better we do not entertain this type of -ve questions.

Kindest Regards,

Sameer Raval [Sql Server DBA]
Geico Insurance
RavalSameer@hotmail.com

sushila SSC-Dedicated Points: 35293 More actions · Answer 9

sameer - I'll let fallenangel answer the questions directly addressed to her.

However, I would like to understand what it is you're trying to tell me - your tone and words seem to indicate that I've said something -ve about Indians somewhere - maybe you'd be good enough to copy and paste that portion so I have a better grasp of what's triggered this rant...

Lastly, you're as free to express your opinions as others are theirs', but I'd request that you keep the tone even - it is important to understand what fallenangel is talking about - she is not attacking Indians and this not an Indians vs. Chinese post...I'll be more than happy to address any issues you may have with my response so long as you don't get aggressive in your attitude - if you cannot talk about something without keeping your emotions in check then it's best that you take a couple of steps back - reread the post and try to understand it in its entirety instead of flying off the handle and honing in on the few words that sound inflammatory...

**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!**

Sameer Raval Hall of Fame Points: 3214 More actions · Answer 10

Sushila,

I have gone through all your post here and found that there was really nothing that I should make comment like that on you. It was emotional answer with some feeling that you have entertained her negative thought somewhere.

I truely appologise for that and updated the post. Hope this brings 2 friends back to good terms.

Kindest Regards,

Sameer Raval [Sql Server DBA]
Geico Insurance
RavalSameer@hotmail.com

roy vij Newbie Points: 3 More actions · Answer 11

Hey Fallen,

If you don't like your company or the policy it projects... Leave... What's up with these Chinese anyway? Why do they build all this stuff and when they build crappy items why can't I throw it at them?... I hope you can understand where I am going with this or your just a cnut. You can not generalize and put everyone in the same boat. When I go to work I do the best I can unlike some other Indians. Just like some Chinese are smart enough to realize this and some are just idiots.

sushila SSC-Dedicated Points: 35293 More actions · Answer 12

I'm not sure why I feel compelled to keep defending what the original post meant - I guess it must be the innate Gandhian in me as well as my firm belief that the pen is indeed mightier than the sword and that everything can be discussed amicably and without rancour...

Here's what she said to my first response...

"I don't want to offend anyone. As a matter of fact, I know a lot of developers that are very good and they are from India."...now where in this does it sound as if she's dumping all Indians in the same boat ?!?! This is just a gripe against one particular company that seems to have hired a bunch of lousy workers - unfortunately they all happen to be Indians...

Her intention was to find out if there were other people in the same "outsourcing" situation that she was in ...not to attack Indians. If a handful of people in a small community like this cannot entertain "dialogue" without stooping to namecalling and petty hostilities, how can we ever expect entire nations to come to agreements...?!?!?!

**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!**

Undebtedly SSCrazy Points: 2938 More actions · Answer 13

sushila, thanks for posting. It saves me from getting shot at trying to do the same thing. 🙂

I know an American who works with an outsourced project like fallen angel's. He's said that management thinks they're saving money, but they're not. (Doesn't matter that it's in India. I've seen similar things with cheaper outsourcing Stateside, with people who have identical accents.)

I'm not surprised at some of fallen angel's difficulties. I work with a team that's spread out worldwide. I'm currently in the Philippines. We've found that it's more difficult to communicate when we're not in the same room. No wonder there. It's particularly hard for XP projects. (One of the tenets of XP is that people are colocated.) We find emotions get frayed easier. Add to this different people from different cultures, and the task is harder yet. We find we need to extend extra kindness.

Messages like some that I've seen here would shatter a dispersed team like this.

I'm glad that fallen angel has said she knows some good developers from India. What I would like to hear is some success stories. Or at least stories of how people got over the difficulties of working on the same project while living on opposite sides of the planet.

Steve Miller

Fallen Angel Ten Centuries Points: 1128 More actions · Answer 14

Thanks Undebtedly and sushila for defending me. As I said before I am not attacking Indian, and I never said Chinese is the best either. If they are so good, I would stay at my own country instead of coming here. At least here I can speak freely. You have no idea how life is in China. I am not coming from a glorious country. Yes, I have an accent too. It was tough the first few years I was here to learn the language and the culture. I tried very hard to adjust.

Once again I just wanted to state that the post was about my company and I think it has a bad policy. I am sure if they outsource to China, I would say the same thing because I know some very bad Chinese developers. My post is aiming at American company policy these days, not any individual.

If they want to competite with the rest of the world, they should hire good developers with good technical skills, regardless of their skin color. They think outsourcing to save a few dollars is the answer and they are wrong.

Dell did a very good thing, there was a post before mentioning they moved the customer service department to India and they received so many complaints about not being able to solve the problem because of the language barrier. Dell moved the whole customer service back to America. Last time I called for help, I talked to someone from America. That is why I still buy PC from Dell, at least they listened to their customers and tried to correct the problem.

Microsoft, Oracle, they all outsoursed to India too but they had fewer problems because they found a good consulting company.

I don't care if my company outsource to India or China or Korea or wherever, as long as they find a good consulting company !

Edward W. Stanley SSCertifiable Points: 6462 More actions · Answer 15

oh boy.... all of a sudden Fallen has found an editor... if you can't say what you mean how can you mean what you say is a key issue for me with the thread and many others like it, my form might not suit the ESL group kicking around here, but well try writing C in french...or ESP with german words

And regarding American companies outsourcing ... what about all the other countries that do not have their own native produced OS... the 'stealing of jobs works both ways'

This can be expanded into an anti international corporate policy and sounds albeit very left of center i might add as well... which does not suit me at all....

who makes the software, who makes the cars, makes the rules...if you don't like the rules and don't like biting that bullet... instead of pointing fingers at the entrepeunerial spirit and maintaining the punch the clock mentality of expecting to be given a job because one can sumate a few inner join commands and figure out the event logs...

The west is not a communist state, such as China, get out there make your own OS, car, motherboards... the freedom to bitch about something is jsut as sacred as the freedom to do something about it.

and shushy..

the pez is mightier than sword