January 9, 2009 at 5:43 am
I've climbed under desks and pulled cable in a suit and tie and I've worked in shorts & sandals at a dot com. In neither situation was I more or less productive, but I was one hell of a lot more comfortable at the dot com.
Appearance only matters initially. Once a track record is established, appearance shouldn't matter that much.
I work now in an environment that's business casual, but they're pretty serious about it. We had an outage once that required me to work until about 4AM. I ran home & came back to work to continue the clean up, no sleep, just a shower. I changed clothes, but wasn't exactly clear headed (shock) and showed up in jeans. No one sent me home or said anything to me that day (damn good thing too) but later in the week I got pulled aside and talked to about my dress code adherence. Sucks, but what are you going to do?
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 9, 2009 at 5:45 am
In general, as a woman in IT, I've always noticed that when not doing presentations on a client site, people tend to assume you're the admin assistant if you dress up too much. I currently work in a place that is "business casual", ie. golf shirts and khakis for men, though the executives tend to wear dress shirts (no ties). We work very near the manufacturing environment. It is not uncommon to have to walk through part of the factory or the warehouse to get to a conference room, so wearing girly shoes and suits are not particularly practical, so I don't wear them. I have found that some people behave more professionally when they are more dressed up, but being practical for the situation is WAY more important.
-Jennifer Sanborn
January 9, 2009 at 5:48 am
AndyD (1/9/2009)
I am surprised at several posts here which admit that they "dress-up" when they, or their boss, deem the situation requires it. This to me is disingenuous. Your presentation, including attire, do make impressions, and the impression given here is false.
I have to disagree with this. It's called playing the game. They're not putting up a false front, they're putting up an expected front. I used to work for a consulting firm in New York. We did a lot of work for banks and other large companies, but 90% of the work was done in our shop. In the shop, I wore what I felt like weaing, within reason, but when we went on sales calls, I wore a suit and tie because, in NYC, when dealing with banks, you wear a suit and tie. It's not a false image, it's simply the expected image.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 9, 2009 at 5:56 am
Mark Horninger (1/9/2009)It sucks, but you tend to get more respect when you're dressed to the part.
I'd say ironically, this is also what I do... dress the part. I usually dress in a t-shirt (and in the colder months a sweatshirt over that) and jeans. I occasionally have to interface with financial and legal folks in other departments, and I hope that to them, I look like a slightly eccentric but sharp computer geek.
I've served my time as a manager. I wore the slacks and ties, and didn't enjoy it.
I've served my time as a consultant. The common practice was to keep a suit on a hanger in the office in case we had to meet with the customer.
I've served my time as a network administrator for a government contract, and had to wear pressed shirts and a tie. It was a great learning experience, but I'm glad I've moved on.
I guess the point is, 'Sure, dress the part. But for the part I see Steve in, the t-shirt is very appropriate.'
January 9, 2009 at 6:18 am
Interesting topic and lots of good feedback. The whole image question falls under the opinion category and, as we all know, opinions are like feet. Everyone has them and some people find those of others obnoxious for various reasons.
The gist of the comments is that you dress for your audience and in your case, Steve, the audience is database/IT geeks and most of us don't really care how you are dressed as long as nothing is hanging out or otherwise exposed that shouldn't be. 😀
Unlike many environments (banking for example, where I was held captive for 21 years), we prefer substance over form. I don't care whether you are dressed in a bathrobe or a suit as long as you are teaching me something new and useful and not trying to sell me something in the process.
January 9, 2009 at 6:18 am
To me, nothing is any worse than a guy wearing a suit and tie who looks like he has been forced to wear a suit and tie and is about as comfortable in a suit and tie as a cat would be in water, e.g. highly desiring to jump out of it.
Then again here, late in my career, I have a closet full of suits and ties that have not seen "action" in (whoa...) well over a decade. And with the way my weight fluctuates, well Steve, if you need a couple suits and ties I have everything from a 40 regular to a 44 long... and I know one of them would go quite nicely with that handsome tee shirt you're wearing!
But when it comes to attire, I noticed no one seemed to mention my dreaded pet peeve.... Women, or men, with 2,000 ear or visible body piercings... As a child of the 50's and 60's I still have difficulty with younger folks who have more metal attached to body parts than there is armor plating on an M1 Abrams tank. Same goes for tatoos.
If you work for me, dress casually, heck, come in in your bathing suit if you want! But show up with disgusting piercings or way-too-over-loud tatoos and well, admittedly, sad as it may be, I am just not "hip" to that.
January 9, 2009 at 6:26 am
You said it all in your article "It's a little immature "
January 9, 2009 at 6:34 am
Well, at work I wear a uniform shirt and jeans. Believe it or not this was suggested by the president of the company, who wanted everyone in a uniform (the majority of our employees have to wear full uniforms for safety's sake). It was a compromise I was happy to live with, as dress pants aren't nearly as comfortable.
Interesting aside, my employment contract mandates "no tie" as my condition for working here!
The comment about ties cutting off circulation to the brain is spot-on in my opinion! (chuckle)
January 9, 2009 at 6:36 am
We live in a social world and people are judged by how the choose to present themselves, whether you like it or not. When you don't care about your personal image and project that, people are influenced by it. Some are more influenced by it than others. But ultimately, everyone is influenced by it. You can overcome people's impressions by brilliance and competence, but why make it harder on yourself. The whole comment about I'm about "comfort" is BS; update your wardrobe to clothes that fit and you will be comfortable.
January 9, 2009 at 6:39 am
blandry (1/9/2009)
Then again here, late in my career, I have a closet full of suits and ties that have not seen "action" in (whoa...) well over a decade. And with the way my weight fluctuates, well Steve, if you need a couple suits and ties I have everything from a 40 regular to a 44 long... and I know one of them would go quite nicely with that handsome tee shirt you're wearing!But when it comes to attire, I noticed no one seemed to mention my dreaded pet peeve.... Women, or men, with 2,000 ear or visible body piercings... As a child of the 50's and 60's I still have difficulty with younger folks who have more metal attached to body parts than there is armor plating on an M1 Abrams tank. Same goes for tatoos.
If you work for me, dress casually, heck, come in in your bathing suit if you want! But show up with disgusting piercings or way-too-over-loud tatoos and well, admittedly, sad as it may be, I am just not "hip" to that.
Got anything in a 58-60, extra long?
The piercings rant...
We had a fine young lad come in for a job interview. When you're just starting out in your career, sans any particular work experience other than Starbucks, how should you present yourself to a stuffy, old-school investment management company?
A) neatly groomed, shirt & tie, perhaps jacket?
b) snappy business casual?
c) torn up jeans (surely purchased that way), t-shirt, corduroy jacket with elbow patches, Billy Idol hair, more piercings than I could count, and those fragile looking glasses that Ty Pennington wears.
Go figure.
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
January 9, 2009 at 6:43 am
I have been working for the same company for almost ten years now. Over time, the dress code has changed slightly. Men were required to wear a tie and dress pants, but not a jacket. Requirements have loosened to 'Business Casual', and we must earn the privilege of wearing jeans on certain days, depending on certain corporate goals. We can also purchase dress down days as a charitable contribution during summer or the holidays.
Personally, I thought it was fun coming straight out of college into a "Grown-up" job, where I was required to wear a tie like a "grown-up". But, I have a 17 1/2'' neck, and tend to generate a lot of body heat, especially with a buttoned-up collar and neck tie. After six months, the charm had worn off. It was a relief not to dress so formally, because I was more comfortable at work, and could concentrate on what I was doing, not on how uncomfortable I felt...
It's difficult, because my company has many different operating units, many requiring interaction with customers. The rules apply to everyone, but we're not all performing the same functions. My customers are all internal, so the public doesn't ever see what I look like. I've had many friends who work in IT at various companies, and their dress code has always been relaxed. My impression is that dressing down is one of the expected perks for IT professionals. Many of us are creative by nature, and spend most of our time at a desk or on the phone. One might even argue that IT professionals are expected to be a little eccentric, and should be afforded some latitude in how they look, as long as general hygiene practices are followed, clean clothes without holes, nothing too revealing or outrageous, etc. I've known people who wear jeans to work every day that are extremely effective, and I've also known consultants and IT service providers who dress formally that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag, and have no customer service skills other than "looking professional."
January 9, 2009 at 6:45 am
blandry (1/9/2009)
To me, nothing is any worse than a guy wearing a suit and tie who looks like he has been forced to wear a suit and tie and is about as comfortable in a suit and tie as a cat would be in water, e.g. highly desiring to jump out of it.Then again here, late in my career, I have a closet full of suits and ties that have not seen "action" in (whoa...) well over a decade. And with the way my weight fluctuates, well Steve, if you need a couple suits and ties I have everything from a 40 regular to a 44 long... and I know one of them would go quite nicely with that handsome tee shirt you're wearing!
But when it comes to attire, I noticed no one seemed to mention my dreaded pet peeve.... Women, or men, with 2,000 ear or visible body piercings... As a child of the 50's and 60's I still have difficulty with younger folks who have more metal attached to body parts than there is armor plating on an M1 Abrams tank. Same goes for tatoos.
If you work for me, dress casually, heck, come in in your bathing suit if you want! But show up with disgusting piercings or way-too-over-loud tatoos and well, admittedly, sad as it may be, I am just not "hip" to that.
Geez, I hope I don't have to work for you any time soon. I've dropped all the piercings, but the tattoos are there to stay.
I think that one is generational, speaking as a child of the 60's & 70's.
But, I will hide the tattoos during job interviews and client visits.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 9, 2009 at 6:47 am
I haven't encountered a company recently where suit and tie was required for men. For someone who is strictly back office and rarely encounters outside clients that is a stupid policy IMHO. Unless it is not to have 2 dress codes - one for the sales force etc and another for the developers. Stew Leonard's, for instance, has a unbelievably stringent appearance policy which applies to all employees, even those who do not encounter customers on a day to day basis. As a woman things are a little more complicated for me. I have a suite of dresses and jumpers and regardless of what others are wearing or whether the job is contract or fulltime that is my wardrobe. It was a little formal where everyone was in jeans.
I think the t-shirt is a little too informal - it looks a trifle unprofessional.
January 9, 2009 at 6:56 am
If I'm judged by what I wear, then I'm not interested in the job. Clothes do not make the man, or woman. (I can wear a tie and commit fraud, beat my wife, etc) I was required to wear a tie for a banking position for 3+ years. Now, I have to suppress every ounce of rebelion in me to put a tie on for an interview . . it's so against my principles . . but in the end, the tie is on. If they require it to work there, then I turn the job down.
I don't wear tie's to weddings (unless I'm in it), funerals, church (I wear jeans to church) . .If God doesn't care what I wear, why should I be concerned with what anybody else thinks?. . . unless I'm trying to impress them of course. ha
Steven
I've been w/ Wachovia for 11+ years . . and now . .
January 9, 2009 at 6:58 am
As for myself, I have not owned a suit in almost 20 years, and will never own another one. At my age, been in computer related jobs since 1985, will not work at another company that requires a tie every day. And believe me, I work a lot years having to wear one every day.
Life is to short to have to go around all day being uncomfortable. I personally really can not believe that through out history, mankind has let himself be trapped into wearing such restrictive fashion as you can see in historical pictures and in the world today.
That is my .02 cents worth.
R. Barbre
MCP, MCSA, MCSE, MCDBA
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