July 6, 2015 at 9:31 am
The problem is that the people who use the tools aren't the ones who buy the tools. People who use tools aren't nearly as important to MS (and to be fair, to any business) than the people who buy the tools.
July 6, 2015 at 9:35 am
That enticement to move to another platform because of it being "cheaper and easier" may be fueled by increasing numbers of developers familiar with these new platforms. Popularity of something makes it easier to hire for that something going forward.
July 6, 2015 at 9:36 am
Why so much hate on SSIS? Yes it has some weird issues and things I'd love to see fixed but compared to DTS or hand coding all your ETL or some other ETL tool it's pretty solid.
July 6, 2015 at 9:41 am
The only thing I ever found SSIS good for was reading in spreadsheets. Nothing else really works to do that. Otherwise, I just keep everything in the database.
But that's just me.
July 6, 2015 at 9:45 am
I'd agree with this. If you find SSIS difficult, use something else.
It's not that SSIS is difficult, it's just that's limited by it's graphical interface and some/much of the original design hasn't been fixed. (Sometimes it is not intuitive and a bit of a straitjacket.)
Imagine if you couldn't write TSQL and all you had an early version of Microsoft's Expression Builder feature. Or you only could use DOS style batch files for automation instead of PowerShell. That's how programmers feel about being limited to only SSIS.
July 6, 2015 at 10:08 am
chrisn-585491 (7/6/2015)
There are folks who successfully use SSIS every day; what they have is a pattern that works.
Yes, but wouldn't they be more productive if Microsoft listened to the feedback and fixed some of the issues with it? Many of the pros are using Biml and BimlScript with SSIS instead of beating their heads against some of the SSIS funkyness.
yes
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
July 6, 2015 at 10:08 am
Stephen Hirsch (7/6/2015)
The problem is that the people who use the tools aren't the ones who buy the tools. People who use tools aren't nearly as important to MS (and to be fair, to any business) than the people who buy the tools.
That's reality, but the problem is MS is not investing in the tooling or features beyond what's needed to get a sale. That's short term thinking that allows other tools and platforms to gain traction.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
July 6, 2015 at 10:12 am
You're a 100% right Steve. Many companies have died the death of a thousand cuts...
July 6, 2015 at 10:39 am
That's reality, but the problem is MS is not investing in the tooling or features beyond what's needed to get a sale. That's short term thinking that allows other tools and platforms to gain traction.
Bingo!!!!
I don't need the new fancy Enterprise Only features and the increased license costs, I need the old stuff fixed or improved or scriptable or all of the above.
July 6, 2015 at 12:46 pm
I used to work in an advertising agency and the received wisdom was that customers were creatures of habit. Your activities were to make sure that customers didn't lose the habit.
With SQLServer there is a lot to like but every tool glitch reminds the developer that those glitches have been addressed elsewhere. Pretty soon they forget the 99% that works brilliantly and over represents the 1% as being the dominant characteristic. Particularly when the developer has an anti-Microsoft bias in the first place.
I'm not a fan of SSIS having seen Ab Initio and one or two others. It isn't the worst but my experience suggests that it is a C in a B- arena
July 6, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Where I work, we use TAB delimited files, so that's why I'm not familiar with the annoywances regarding the CSV file format and embedded commas.
SSIS is definately not intended for use by layman in the same way as MS Access or Excel. It's basically a tool for integrating various SQL Server tasks into a visual design flow and runtime envrionment. It may be rough around the edges, but for me it gets the job done, so long as you stick to proven design patterns. By that, I mean there may be 2 advertised ways of getting something done, but only 1 way works. Like any integration tool, some scripting is required on occasion.
But complaining about the peculiarities of the T-SQL language is basically along the same lines as this.
http://www.xamuel.com/10-reasons-why-english-is-hard-language/
When it comes to ANSI SQL compatability, T-SQL is one of the better implementations. There are others like Oracle PL/SQL where NULL = '' (empty string), which for me was difficult adjusting to.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 6, 2015 at 1:24 pm
He's got a lot of good points, but one point I think that is off the mark is where he complains about the transaction logs. I realize a lot of us developers often don't get very deep into the administration side of things, but I would consider that basic knowledge about SQL Server.
On the other hand for years I missed all the window and analytic functions that were in Oracle and Postgresql, and I often would move data sets into a private Postgresql instance for working on one off reports.
July 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (7/6/2015)
...the problem is MS is not investing in the tooling or features beyond what's needed to get a sale. That's short term thinking that allows other tools and platforms to gain traction.
You took the words right out of my mouth. If they spent just one version fixing or bringing up to date those things that need it (and that includes a lot of "Closed - Working As Designed" items) and things like fixing ACE drivers and updating BCP and fixing things like the privs problems associate with BULK INSERT and whole lot of other things with the engine and TQL itself (seriously!!! Like the fact that shrink still doesn't work correctly, etc), then a whole lot more people would have a whole lot better opinion of both MS and SQL Server.
And, while it's understood that Azure is important to future success, fix the product/customer base that you already have in the stand-alone product and then migrate those fixes to Azure. It's a win-Win-WIN for anyone and everyone involved.
--Jeff Moden
July 6, 2015 at 8:59 pm
See below (quoted).
July 6, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Eric M Russell (7/6/2015)
Where I work, we use TAB delimited files, so that's why I'm not familiar with the annoywances regarding the CSV file format and embedded commas.
What about embedded TABS or NEWLINES? Does it work?
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 43 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply