November 14, 2008 at 11:03 am
Jack Corbett (11/14/2008)
Andy Warren (11/14/2008)
Jack, I'd argue that time spent on SSC is productive, but it's not the 'real' work that I'd count towards my goal of 6.5 hours a day. As a manager/employer I need my team to stay current and I have no problem with budgeting some time for that - in fact I have, as some portion of that other 1.5 hours a day.If you don't have anything to do, spending time here is better than reading the newspaper, but as a manage/employer I'd prefer that you found a way to reinvest that time back into the business - automating a process that you'd otherwise do manually, test your backup, update your documentation and data dictionary, etc. Not busy work, just the work that is most commonly deferred and deferred again.
Of course, if you're trying to solve an active problem, then time here or elsewhere then goes into the real work bucket.
Andy,
I can't disagree. Ideally an employee should be busy doing something that brings value to the employer the entire time at the office. I can rationalize/justify just about any behavior, but that does not make it right.
The reason work is deferred is because it is unpleasant. Who wants to document? :hehe:
Me! Me!
Really! One of the tasks I usually take over for my teams is creating and editing documentation to describe the work. I enjoy it, and do it well, and they are relieved to get it done and only need to verify that I included all the important points.
November 14, 2008 at 11:22 am
Thanks for the article, and all who have responded.
My last job, I was a self-employed consultant who billed by the hour. With my current job, I'm still a consultant, but I work for only one client, and I get paid an hourly wage but have a consistent 8-hour/day schedule (40/wk). I must report all my hours into a time-sheet system to get paid.
I've been struggling lately with nagging feelings of dishonesty for charging for a full 8-hour day on days I didn't feel were 100% productive (progress I could prove every minute of every hour).
You've all given me a bit of perspective, and helped me realize that I'm using my perspective from my last job to beat myself up over my perceived "performance" on this one. Truthfully, I never was able to bill more than about 6 hours a day on my last job... and that was a GOOD day. So why should I be able to be productive more than 6-7 hours in an 8-hour day? I wasn't before... 🙂
I may even convince myself that visiting this website more regularly shouldn't be considered "non-billable" time. 😀
Thanks, all!
November 14, 2008 at 11:37 am
jaxcitytech (11/14/2008)
I've been struggling lately with nagging feelings of dishonesty for charging for a full 8-hour day on days I didn't feel were 100% productive (progress I could prove every minute of every hour)....
I may even convince myself that visiting this website more regularly shouldn't be considered "non-billable" time. 😀
Hey Jax,
I think you will often find that private consultants regularly charge more per hour (usually nearly 3x) than hourly employees. A big part of the reason for this is that consultants don't get regular work, and when they do get the work, there is more of an expectation that they will be spending more productive time, or not charging for the work.
For the most part, that expectation is not made of the hourly worker (of course, that may vary by employer).
Yes, visiting sites like this does not need to be considered, non-billable time (if done in moderation). I have found that an excellent time to check out sites like these is when you are at a lull. Sometimes we will not have much to do, or we will be waiting one someone else. Or, sometimes we will be at some point of mental block where we simply can't concentrate on the current task. These are also good times to do research like this and is one way of staying productive, when we are not 100%.
In fact, there are times when, if I am too tired, or I am too frustrated with a particular problem, I will intentionally stop working on it. I have found when I attempt to force issues and complete them when I am not in the right frame of mind, often I have to go back and fix them later, which can sometimes be very difficult, since I often can't remember why I was doing things "that way".
November 14, 2008 at 11:41 am
If Fred wasn't still with us, he'd be spinning in his grave. He's probably sitting in a coffee shop somewhere with his head in his hands wondering why people are still struggling with this. (I'm sorry, Fred, on their behalves.)
😀
Your penance is to go [re?]read Mythical Man-Month and say five "Hail, Brooks."
:hehe:
Fred's on my long list of people-to-meet-someday. I didn't realize that he's 77, but only because I've never thunk about it. Time to reorder the list in descending order by birthdate.
November 14, 2008 at 11:49 am
You sound a little like me, not the fastest programmer because I get bogged down in details, some important, some not so important. If I'm updating exisiting code and see something that's not a best or even good practice I want to fix it while I'm there because if not now, when? Or who? Or maybe it's just not important enough to stress over 🙂 Someone else may simply get done what they're told to do and voila, problem solved.
I work with some less technical people and one thing I haven't seen in this thread is the idea that technical work is just plain harder than nontechnical work. Our minds are racing a mile per minute which is probably why many of us don't do well after 8 hours; we can burn out. I'm not sure people realize this when they tell you how they put in a 70 hour week last week. I'm glad Steve is excluding meetings, constructing emails, hallway talk, etc... in the measurement of real work.
With that said I'll give myself credit for 6-7 hours per day.
November 14, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I once heard a shallow CEO say "Never Confuse Efforts with Results"
You should have seen the look on his face when I turned it around on him and gave the reason for my
departure as "In an attempt to stay true to the mantra of never confusing effort with results, I have kept a very meticulous journal of my efforts with this company during my time here. Each year I have carefully assessed my efforts and the results they have produced. On several occassions you have confused my results as requiring minimum effort . .
I trust your judgement on this and therefore am not at all worried that you will be able to promptly get anyone out there to perform my duties with the same effort and results.
November 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm
blandry (11/14/2008)
(lot of snipping here) Years ago... This respected mentor taught me... In the years since... I work 8 solid hours a day - 8 productive hours a day - and day after day work gets done.Bottom line? I've seen plenty of people work way too hard thinking that someday a retirement will come and they will have lots of money to "rest". Thats baloney. Few ever see it and those who do usually are stir-crazy in retirement. Do your 8 hours a day and work hard - but remember business is like a river and there is always a flow coming at you - sometimes heavy, sometimes light, most often something in-between. But killing yourself in technology, a business that is always changing, is not worth leaving your loved ones without you.
Sage advice, and well said. Thank you. I often have to continue to remind myself of these things. Quite often one's hardest work goes into the ether without true appreciation, and you still have to live with yourself and for your family. If continued for long it often eventually ends up in periods of burn-out... sometimes 6 months or more. Much better to pace each day, put in honest work, but cut it off as much as possible when it is time to go home. Stress less, live longer, enjoy family. Even when the project is a joy and difficult to set aside, save it for the next day when it is time to cut off. Keep it in balance.
Occasionally, that balance tips the other way, and to be productive at work, a little off-hours personal study and/or research (not work execution) goes a long way to re-energizing and maintaining the balance.
November 14, 2008 at 3:07 pm
jpowers (11/14/2008)
Anonymous post #1:
Hello Steve,
Let’s not forget that as “Knowledge Workers” – we carry our brains around (most of us anyways) 24-7.
That means that, when we are commuting, in front of the TV during a muted commercial, walking the dog, or any other task that does not require much brain bandwidth, we are often pondering solutions for that project or issue that arose while we were at work! There have been many times that I came up with a solution to a nagging problem “after hours”.
The reality is we don’t just work an 8 hour day like say, a factory worker, who’s productivity ceases the moment he clocks out. Our product is our innovations that come at anytime, day or night.
This is absolutely correct. Many times I have thought of a new approach as I wake up in the morning. Should I have billed for REM sleep?
The comments on sleep and ponderables here made me laugh. There have been more than a few times that from my sleep I sat bolt upright in bed with an "Eureka!" answer to a current problem. I am forced to concede that sleep indeed was required for some solutions to move forward!
November 15, 2008 at 9:43 am
Thanks for the comments and it's interesting to see what people think.
As I read through these, I think I might actually be more efficient than I expected. If I start to feel less efficient, I tend to move away and take care of things at home, kids, etc. and then come back later. It helps me not to waste time when I'm not productive.
Maybe employers ought to be thinking this way.
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November 15, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Anonymous post:
On a slow day I work 8 hours. I usually feel like I get very little accomplished in those 8 hours and those hours will have to include before I get to the office and clock in and at least 2 hours after I clock in. All day there is someone coming into the office to ask me to take care of something right away. They will need a report written or there will be an issue with the erp system we use. So yes I do get 8 to 9 hours worth of work in but accomplish 3 hours worth of my tasks.
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November 15, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Anonymous response:
Steve,
I've been subscribed to your newsletter for about 6 months now and enjoy it quite a bit. I am the Systems Architect for a medium sized online and catalog retailer. The question you ask is an interesting one because it involves a definition of work that is not really that easy to pin down. In my job I am responsible for a wide diversity of tasks and its required skillset IS IMMENSE. I might be writing code, configuring and managing servers, hardening our web presence against every form of invasion, monitoring bandwidth, installing software, doing research on future technologies and methodologies to migrate too, etc. You get the idea. I need to keep up to date on MANY fronts. Am I getting work done when I attend an online seminar or take a class at my local community college to update/improve my skills? When I read your newsletter (or several others that I am subscribed to) is that work? How about reading blogs from SANS, Slashdot, etc? What about looking at other online retailers websites to get ideas to incorporate on our site? I would argue that all of these and many other less direct activities are indeed work. And as you suggest in your editorial, creativity is one of those intangible activities that don't easily conform to a schedule. Sometimes I just need to be online and wander random sites while I am leting my mind percholate about some idea or solution to a problem. If I was rated simply on the amount of code I wrote, the number of hours sent in some administrative interface, or setting up some system, then I would have to say I do about 4-5 hours of work a day, on a good day. If you count all of these others less obvious forms of work then its more like 8 -9 hours a day. If you include those times when my mind is working subconsciously on a problem while I do something else, then its much more like 12 hours a day. So take your pick.
I think part of the problem with IT is that it shares a number of aspects in common with our professional occupations like a Doctor or Lawyer. Change is constant in this field and the amount of time just keeping our skillsets fresh and performing "invisible work" is very significant. Should all of these activities occur on our "own time". I say absolutely not. Both on and offsite, I spend a significant amount of time being a System Architect. I usually only write 8 hours of work on my timesheet everyday, but its really more than that.
Thanks for asking,
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November 15, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Anonymous post:
I am a Sr DBA and data architect. The number of hours I actually work depend on my position/contract and the day. Sometimes it'a even less than an hour, and sometimes it can be full 8-9 hours. I think my average is 3 hours. The rest is spend on emails, research, self study etc.
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December 17, 2008 at 8:36 am
I have always known this to be something called "work factor". I lead a development team and still develop myself in the team and on the side. This is the idea that in a full days worth of work how much is spent on the actual assigned tasks or widgets (http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~penny/research/release-planning/def.html#c.w).
In most situations no one can have a consistent 100% work factor. I actually found somewhere on the internet a long time ago that the industry average work factor for IT was around 65%. So in an 8 hour day a worker on average would get 5.2 hours of concrete coding work done towards a task / project, ect.
This never bothered me. I found that even for my team of developers they have many interruptions through the day / week that take them away from concrete coding of a task assigned. Bugs in another system, helping an end user with something, team meetings, department meetings, water cooler meetings (let's face it they happen and it's not necessarily bad) and the list goes on....
I have several team members that work from home anywhere from 1 to 4 days a week and have found their work factor is higher. The 4 day a week at home has been as high at 85% or nearly seven hours out of eight are concrete coding.
My shop is a little unique in that we are in house development for the entire company of 1000+ employees and 30 divisions/departments. We have a lot of potential for distractions. However, I have learned as a manager it is my job to guard and attempt to increase the work factor for the team by ensuring the have as much time as possible to code on a task. I have taken steps such as cutting down our team meetings from 1-2 hours a week to 20-30 minutes. I have attempted to ensure our work order system is utilized more by our team and our users to ensure I can see what is coming in and assign it properly vs. users calling my team members and having things slide in without me knowing or knowing too late.
Anyway, my two cents worth....
December 17, 2008 at 10:03 am
kevin labranche (12/17/2008)
I have learned as a manager it is my job to guard and attempt to increase the work factor for the team by ensuring the have as much time as possible to code on a task. I have taken steps such as cutting down our team meetings from 1-2 hours a week to 20-30 minutes. I have attempted to ensure our work order system is utilized more by our team and our users to ensure I can see what is coming in and assign it properly vs. users calling my team members and having things slide in without me knowing or knowing too late.
I've been that kind boss a couple times and lucky enough to have that kind of boss a couple of times. I've had to leave companies when my ablative insulation (boss) left and I was directly exposed to whimsical executive radiation and new AAA priorities every hour or so.
The best one was a boss who understood that it was my job to "get stuff done" and it was his job to "apologize for me". Heh.
If you're ever hiring, Kevin, let us know!
December 17, 2008 at 11:20 am
The best one was a boss who understood that it was my job to "get stuff done" and it was his job to "apologize for me".
Oh, OUCHHH. What a great boss!!! EEEEKKK! How do so many get into power and not realize the power of their words.... Please tell me you somehow got this boss to realize the massive error in their thinking on this one!
A manager's job is to remove as many roadblocks that are possible for their team and then apologize and take to fall to their manager when things still fail. Hello!!! We are the leader of the team. Which by the way means giving the team the praise for a job well done not yourself....
I certainly don't know how I would have reacted if I was told that but I can imagine it would not have been good even if I never spoke my thoughts to the manager.
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