Free As In Speech

Question

Post reply

Free As In Speech

Steve Jones - SSC Editor

SSC Guru

Points: 728164
More actions
February 7, 2006 at 4:51 pm

#62238

Comments posted to this topic are about the content posted at http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones/freeasinspeech.asp
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply

Martin Fairbairn SSC Rookie Points: 28 More actions · Answer 1

Dear Steve,

You overlooked one "third way"

It is acceptable practice to quote extracts from some other author's work as part of your own thesis or explanation - as long as you give the original author proper credit for the original publication.

Thanks,

Martin

chrisleonard SSCertifiable Points: 5000 More actions · Answer 2

Hi Steve,

I've never thought about this before, but do the prohibitions against plagiarism apply to copying information from forum or newsgroup posts as well? In other words, if you post something in a newsgroup, is that material considered your intellectual property, such that anyone using it needs to give proper citation?

Of course, if I am posting in a newsgroup, I understand it is my responsibility to properly cite any sources I make use of. I'm wondering more about posts being referenced in other sources, not other sources being referenced in posts.

Thanks,

Chris

sheepoo SSC Eights! Points: 959 More actions · Answer 3

There are very strict rules, as I learned at the Univresity, about how to put references to your work. I once made the mistake of quoting some work in one of my projects but forgot to properly reference it. I was called into the Dean's office and had a hard time explaining my position.

Personally , I love when someone uses my ideas or work for something which will benefit them. However, as Steve has already mentioned in this article, it is very very important to pay the credit where its due. It is only the right thing to do

DCPeterson SSCoach Points: 15256 More actions · Answer 4

I am not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but I think public forums and newsgroups are in the "public domain." But while there may not be legal issues (copyright infringement) with copying content, to claim someone else's work, regardless of where you found it, as your own is still plagarism.

Even if you can't find reliable information as to the original author, you should still indicate the source as anonymous.

/*****************

If most people are not willing to see the difficulty, this is mainly because, consciously or unconsciously, they assume that it will be they who will settle these questions for the others, and because they are convinced of their own capacity to do this. -Friedrich August von Hayek

*****************/

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 728164 More actions · Answer 5

I think posts are a grey area. If you post substantial code or develop original thoughts in a paragraph or two, then I think your words are copyrighted. Quoting someone in an answer or additional question should be fine.

I think that if you think it is someone else's work, it is.

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com

amitelman SSC Enthusiast Points: 180 More actions · Answer 6

You've choosed great example. I personally credited many times Andrew Zanevsky for his sp_force_shrink_log procedure.

Calvin Lawson SSChampion Points: 11030 More actions · Answer 7

Obviously Steve Jones is dealing some people doing ridiculous grade-school stuff, so I applaud his attempt to clarify issues. And he does a pretty good job. But unfortunately reality is a bit more complicated.

For example, if someone copies what I'm writing now, what laws are they breaking? (As an aside, if they copy this, who's copyright is being violated? I wrote it, but it's on SCC. Hmmm....)

There's no such thing as "Intellectual Property Law", but there is Patent, Trademark, and Copyright Law (all completely different from each other in form and function). In this instance we are mostly talking about Copyright, but code is covered under Patent law as well. Do you need a patent to protect published code? Well, IANAL, but it is far from clear.

From Wikipedia:

"Copyright law covers only the particular form or manner in which ideas or information have been manifested, the "form of material expression". It is not designed or intended to cover the actual idea, concepts, facts, styles, or techniques which may be embodied in or represented by the copyright work. Copyright law provides scope for satirical or interpretive works which themselves may be copyrighted."

So, quoting a copyrighted work can be fine (like above). Paraphrasing a copyrighted work can be fine. Using published code for your own purposes and articles can be fine. Many things are fine, and covered under Fair Use. Copyright law is quite complicated, so you'd have to hire a lawyer to figure it out for sure, and then it would still be the court's decision in the long run.

But that's the problem; we shouldn't need a lawyer to function in our everyday environment, right? Obviously, the goal here (at least from a user's perspective) is helping people learn how to use SQL, and getting help ourselves. This should be allowed, as much as possible.

If someone publishes a coding technique (Joe Celko comes to mind), this should not mean that other people can't use this technique, or even expand/refactor it and publish their own works. If this wasn't allowed the world would be a much worse place (and I would be a much worse programmer). We could learn something from the OSS community on this one; let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.

Signature is NULL