September 10, 2008 at 9:32 am
PaulB (9/10/2008)
Alvin Ramard (9/10/2008)
Backup of the abacus would be easy. Just take a picture and store it in a safe place.;)That would be good for DR... you can send the picture to your remote location and have somebody set a second abacus as the one that shows on the picture 😎
Point a webcam at the abacus and you can have mirroring; or would that be replication?
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
September 11, 2008 at 2:42 am
Alvin Ramard (9/10/2008)
Point a webcam at the abacus and you can have mirroring; or would that be replication?
mmhhh... neither one, if you loose your primary-abacus-site you would have nothing at the other end of your web camera 😛 but, you may have developed a remote access device for abacus-based-datawarehousing 😀
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.September 11, 2008 at 8:16 am
You do not have a data warehouse, and what they are asking for (a big report) does NOT justify you creating a data warehouse (DW).
So what is a data warehouse? According to The Kimball Group (http://www.rkimball.com/), "the data warehouse is the platform for business intelligence." As you continue your investigation into data warehousing, and as the Kimbal Group also agrees, a data warehouse "is NOT merely a centralized and highly normalized store of data in the back room, far from the end-users."
There are several good books by the Kimball Group that I recommend you read, like "The Microsoft Data Warehouse Toolkit" (SQL Server 2005); Wiley, The Kimball Group.
In summary, Data Warehousing is very different from what most of us have been trained to understand (Cobb, normalization, RDBM systems, etc.), and what is the confusing point for most is that it uses the same database "stuff" like SQL Server, SSIS, ETL, etc. to create a DW; of course, there are additional critical components like Analysis Services (where one builds the "cubes" for the DW) which really (to ma anyway) is the point where a database system begins to "earn" the name Data Warehouse. DW is certainly too big to define here, so keep researching and learning.
September 11, 2008 at 10:26 am
:w00t: You are only mentioning Kimball... that's blatant discrimination!!!
If you mention Kimball you are required by law to mention Inmon... -or was it Inmoff? 😀
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.September 11, 2008 at 10:53 am
So, according to a Kimbal Group "...the data warehouse is the platform for business intelligence..."
Or, in other words, a "buzz word" is another "buzz word". (Sounds like a Campbell definition);).
I love this definition:
"...Data Warehousing is very different from what most of us have been trained to understand (Cobb, normalization, RDBM systems, etc.)..."
(Almost like a magiiiiiiicccccccccc...) :w00t:
I guess there should be clear differentiation between definition of a concept (data warehouse),
design (relational DW, OLAP) and toolkit/tools you want to use.
Inmon just giving you a definition of concept terminology. Design of a DWH using relational model or cubes should be defined by client's requirements .
(not goint to step to the toolset :D)
September 11, 2008 at 10:59 am
Glen Sidelnikov (9/11/2008)
Design of a DWH using relational model or cubes should be defined by client's requirements
I totally disagree.
Business requirements specify where you have to go, no how to go there.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.September 11, 2008 at 11:08 am
I totally disagree.
Business requirements specify where you have to go, no how to go there.
In ideal world? Yep. In reality? ...
After all: the design of the DWH will always come from requirements either your client dictating it or not.
September 11, 2008 at 11:49 am
I was just trying to say there is more to a DW than a "big report" or a bunch of data! Just the way the original question was presented told me the asker had really no clue what a DW is. He, and apparently you to, need to do some research.
September 11, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Let's forget about my previous experience of implementing relational reporting warehouses.
Desided to follow your kind advice. Did a brief investigation... I have to disappoint you.
1. Most of the people are using Inmon's definition and most of contemporary definitions are, in fact, paraphrases of Inmon's.
2. Read definitions carefully. If you will abstract from buzz words that you are using: data warehouse is a "bunch of data". It is not a "big report". It could be USED to produce big reports.
3. In any case scenario if the person asking you about pretty much practical questions and "have no clue" about the nature, ideal way to answer is to give a definition (as it was done) with some examples of use, instead of answering with extremely disappointing: "Data Warehousing is very different from what most of us have been trained to understand"... :hehe:
Let's read...
Definitions of Data Warehouse on the Web:
A warehouse is a subject-oriented, integrated, time-variant and non-volatile collection of data in support of management's decision making ...
http://www.1keydata.com/datawarehousing/glossary.html
A collection of integrated, subject-oriented databases designed to support the DSS function, where each unit of data is relevant to some moment in time. The data warehouse contains atomic data and lightly summarized data.
damacoc.org/presentations/2007_04_11_Adelman_DWGlossary.doc
A computerized database composed of data extracted from the data processing and accounting systems used for various bank deposit, loan, and other customer products. ...
https://secure.americanbanker.com/glossary.html
Data Warehouse is a database specifically designed to contain historic snapshots of various operational system data, normally in an aggregated form which is used by data analysts and other end users for analyzing, reporting, tracking, and supporting strategic decisions. ...
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/systems/sacwis/glossary.htm
a collection of databases that stores massive amounts of data.
http://www.boredofstudies.org/wiki/index.php%5Bu%5D%5B/u%5D%5B/b%5D
An integrated repository of data from multiple, possibly heterogeneous data sources, presented with consistent and coherent semantics. ...www.genomicglossaries.com/content/algorithms_glossary.asp
A data warehouse is a repository of information specifically designed to make the extraction and analysis of data simple and efficient. ...
http://www.mis.admin.uq.edu.au/content/ResourceCentre/Glossary.aspx
Repository of subject-orientated, historical data designed to optimise analysis rather than transaction handling; used for regular extraction and analysis of data from large transaction databases. (Sources: Leventhal 2002, Dyche 2000)
http://www.theidm.com/index.cfm
An information repository from which queries and analysis may be made.
http://www.pcai.com/web/glossary/pcai_d_f_glossary.html
The data warehouse to me is more of a logical concept. All of your data marts (with, hopefully conformed dimensions) plus any ODS or active staging areas. By active, I mean updated in real-time by operational systems primarily in support of the warehouse. ...
sqldbpool.wordpress.com/2008/04/04/database-concepts-or-database-keywords/
is a repository of operational Data from one or more sources within an organisation, together with data derived from a variety of external sources ...
http://www.quantum3.co.za/CI%20Glossary.htm
The Data Warehouse is a central repository of data that provides the MIT community with integrated, up-to-date data from various administrative systems. Using a reporting tool called BrioQuery, you can download the information from the database into a report format. ...
mit.edu/sapr3/docs/webdocs/glossary/glCD.html
Maestro’s Data Warehouse stores and manages recipient profiles and target groups stored within LISTSERV Maestro.
http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/Maestro/2.1/Admin/WebHelp/Glossary_of_Terms.htm
A database used for storing historical data, which is used for data analysis.
docs.rinet.ru/O8/glossary.htm
The department or entity charged with collecting organization-wide data, verifying its accuracy, and analyzing, managing, and distributing it throughout the organization. ...
www2.uta.edu/ssw/trainasfa/glossary.htm
a logical collection of information, gathered from many different operational databases, that supports business analysis activities and decision-making tasks
http://www.321site.com/greg/courses/mis1/glossary.htm
Central repository of data extracted from various sources. The current UCM DW is a ‘read-only’ system with extracted data from SIS+, AFINS ...
http://www.ucmo.edu/x18299.xml
A large database capable of storing all the information possessed by a large organization.
http://www.jqjacobs.net/edu/cis105/concepts/CIS105_concepts_13.html
a central repository of data, or database, that integrates information from different operational systems and stores up-to-date information for ...
http://www.mondelio.com.au/Sitemap/cpm-glossary-d-h.html
Collection of all data marts within a business within a single, unified database. Nearly impossible to build in "real life".
stars.sas.cornell.edu/datad/terminology.php
A 'data warehouse' is a repository of an organization's electronically stored data. Data warehouses are designed to facilitate reporting and ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data warehouse
a collection of data, from a variety of sources, organized to provide useful guidance to an organization's decision makers
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/data warehouse
September 11, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Glen Sidelnikov (9/11/2008)
I totally disagree.
Business requirements specify where you have to go, no how to go there.
In ideal world? Yep. In reality? ...
After all: the design of the DWH will always come from requirements either your client dictating it or not.
Business requirements would never, ever dictate the architecture of your DWH. Period.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.September 11, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I am certainly not disappointed. You have just proven my point for me, most beautifully. That is, there are many definition, depending on who you ask!!! BUT, for the fella that asked the original question, the answer was "NO", he was NOT talking about a DW; and frankly, almost all of your "definitions", in my opinion, are flat wrong, at best, they are "inaccruate". The only one that comes close to correct is:
"a logical collection of information, gathered from many different operational databases, that supports business analysis activities and decision-making tasks
http://www.321site.com/greg/courses/mis1/glossary.htm"
If I hit a nerve, maybe you need to check yourself. Spewing "definitions" doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. In terms of communications, you are "unconsciously ignorant" (i.e., you don't know what you don't know) about Data Warehouses. I have built several, successful DWs which included standard reporting functionality...and a whole lot more!
September 11, 2008 at 1:18 pm
In order to agree on definitions...
Does it mean that what you are saying should be translated to: "When I am designing a data warehouse, I am not basing my architecture and design of a particular solution on business requirements"?
September 11, 2008 at 1:22 pm
And the reason for your sarcasim is?
September 11, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ok, msanchez, since you are clearly getting upset, I am going to pour some gas on the fire.
The last definition you posted:
[font="Courier New"]"a logical collection of information, gathered from many different operational databases, that supports business analysis activities and decision-making tasks
http://www.321site.com/greg/courses/mis1/glossary.htm"[/font]
Meets neither the Inmon or Kimball definitions. It includes something very strange in that it specifies that you must have "many different operational databases" - strange that the author does not believe that a data warehouse could be created from data coming from a single operational database.
Now, other than the data coming from a single source (I presume), I challenge you to tell us what part of the requirements the OP's original "report" does not meet. It is certainly a logical collection of information and is intended to be used for analysis and decision making. In fact, any report seems to meet these two requirements.
Now, it's not a great example, and I would personally not call it a data warehouse, but I have to believe that any reasonable person that understands data warehousing can see how an argument can be made that the OP's report is at least part of a data warehouse.
September 11, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Well, I am not upset. I am sitting here laughing at you folks. You all have gone way over the edge. The definition in my last post was copied from the other argumentative poster and I said it was the only definition that was "close" to what I think a DW is.
So, let's just leave it as this: the OP asked if he should consider building a DW, and I think the general consensus is "NO". He also asked what a DW is, and I suggested a source, a fine, reliable, proven, source he could use to further answer his question as to what a DW is.
Those who chose to respond so negatively to my post are out of line; the OP can make up his own mind. Give you opinion to him, and leave your evangelical efforts towards me out of it. You are certainly entitled to your own opinions, as I am!
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