February 11, 2009 at 7:13 am
Friday the Thirteenth.... My lucky day..:D
-Roy
February 11, 2009 at 8:59 am
I'm new to all this and I'm just beginning to learn how to create scripts for reports using SQL and Crystal reports. I found it interesting how some people post "please provide script". Maybe it's not their primary job duty to create scripts but it seems like their not asking for help but asking for someone to do their job for them. Just an opinion from a newbie.:cool:
February 11, 2009 at 9:16 am
carriem (2/11/2009)
I'm new to all this and I'm just beginning to learn how to create scripts for reports using SQL and Crystal reports. I found it interesting how some people post "please provide script". Maybe it's not their primary job duty to create scripts but it seems like their not asking for help but asking for someone to do their job for them. Just an opinion from a newbie.:cool:
This, and some previous posts, reminds me of a gig for Cable & Wireless some years ago. A new DBA had been recruited on the then (2001) very generous permy salary of 70k. Two or three weeks into the job, he sneaked up quietly to my desk and asked a confusing question about UNION. "How do I get the extra columns to come out?" Thinking he meant rows I said nothing and we went back to his desk to see what he'd already done. Sure enough, he'd combined two queries using UNION, except there were no common columns between them.
He was still there several months later.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
February 11, 2009 at 10:14 am
See my signature line.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
February 11, 2009 at 10:46 am
carriem (2/11/2009)
I'm new to all this and I'm just beginning to learn how to create scripts for reports using SQL and Crystal reports. I found it interesting how some people post "please provide script". Maybe it's not their primary job duty to create scripts but it seems like their not asking for help but asking for someone to do their job for them. Just an opinion from a newbie.:cool:
I have a bad habit of reading a post which says "I want to do something complicated...please provide script", finding it interesting, writing a script (with all the DDL, etc) and posting it as a reply!
What we should all be doing in response to these is saying "What have you tried so far?" and then correcting what they've offered, so maybe they learn something for next time.
Hopefully people would also post the CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements for the sample data, but I'm not going to hold my breath! 🙂
Derek
February 11, 2009 at 10:51 am
Derek Dongray (2/11/2009)
carriem (2/11/2009)
I'm new to all this and I'm just beginning to learn how to create scripts for reports using SQL and Crystal reports. I found it interesting how some people post "please provide script". Maybe it's not their primary job duty to create scripts but it seems like their not asking for help but asking for someone to do their job for them. Just an opinion from a newbie.:cool:I have a bad habit of reading a post which says "I want to do something complicated...please provide script", finding it interesting, writing a script (with all the DDL, etc) and posting it as a reply!
What we should all be doing in response to these is saying "What have you tried so far?" and then correcting what they've offered, so maybe they learn something for next time.
Hopefully people would also post the CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements for the sample data, but I'm not going to hold my breath! 🙂
We have managed to train 1 or 2 do to that. What, that's about 0.0001% to 0.0002% of all members, not counting the "major players" like Cardinal Moden.
February 11, 2009 at 11:55 am
If there's not SQL, I hint ("think union" or "try MAX()") and then ask them to show work. I love helping, but I hate being an unknowing contractor for someone.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
February 11, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Steve, what do you do if they are unwilling, or unable, to take the hints?
Sometimes giving an example in code is the easiest way to illustrate what they need to learn. I will gladly do that for someone who appears to be trying and it seems as if most of your real gurus will as well. The frustration comes from people who do not appear to be trying. My favorite nominee for a hypothetical List shall remain nameless... but it's someone who is either totally clueless at the most fundamental level, or who plays dumb to get someone else to write code. I monitor his continual submissions to SSC, but no longer even attempt to help him. I can spare the time and patience to give a hint, discuss an interesting problem, or even to knock out a dozen lines of code to illustrate a solution. What I won't do is conduct a long, agonizing tutorial over the course of a week for someone who is either way over his head or just plain lazy.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
February 11, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Bob Hovious (2/11/2009)
Steve, what do you do if they are unwilling, or unable, to take the hints?Sometimes giving an example in code is the easiest way to illustrate what they need to learn. I will gladly do that for someone who appears to be trying and it seems as if most of your real gurus will as well. The frustration comes from people who do not appear to be trying. My favorite nominee for a hypothetical List shall remain nameless... but it's someone who is either totally clueless at the most fundamental level, or who plays dumb to get someone else to write code. I monitor his continual submissions to SSC, but no longer even attempt to help him. I can spare the time and patience to give a hint, discuss an interesting problem, or even to knock out a dozen lines of code to illustrate a solution. What I won't do is conduct a long, agonizing tutorial over the course of a week for someone who is either way over his head or just plain lazy.
Any hints on He who will remain unnamed? Is it someone I've "spent time" trying to help in the recent past?
February 11, 2009 at 2:56 pm
February 11, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I try to guage the degree of response based on how I read the question. If, for example, it looks like an interview/test/homework question, I'll simply say so and won't go beyond that. If it looks like someone is trying, but just can't seem to get the key concept, I'll give hints like Steve; "Max and Group By will probably do what you need", "Are you familiar with sub-queries?". If, on the other hand, it looks like someone who has come up against a brick wall and has posted some helpless code, I'll sometimes write as much of a solution as I can based on whatever they've posted.
It also, of course, depends on how much time I have available.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 11, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I'm pretty much like GSquared just said, but I have 1 thing to add.
How much information I'm ready to pass on also depends on how busy I am at the time.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
February 11, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Lynn Pettis (2/11/2009)
Any hints on He who will remain unnamed? Is it someone I've "spent time" trying to help in the recent past?
I can think of a couple that fit that, none of whom I'm willing to help anymore.
One has a habit of wanting us to do his work
One's asking advanced (or way-out) questions will little foundation in fundamentals (Can't build a castle on the sand)
One's either posting useless answers (often a rephrase of an answer above) or exhibiting the 'deer-in-headlights' appearance.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 11, 2009 at 10:51 pm
GilaMonster (2/11/2009)
Lynn Pettis (2/11/2009)
Any hints on He who will remain unnamed? Is it someone I've "spent time" trying to help in the recent past?I can think of a couple that fit that, none of whom I'm willing to help anymore.
One has a habit of wanting us to do his work
One's asking advanced (or way-out) questions will little foundation in fundamentals (Can't build a castle on the sand)
One's either posting useless answers (often a rephrase of an answer above) or exhibiting the 'deer-in-headlights' appearance.
Only a couple?? There actually seems to be a gaggle of them out there.
Cynical, perhaps we are.
Hey, sorry to bug you, but have you cut through all the work yet? If it hadn't been your comment about Jeff's running total process not working on pertitioned tables, I'd never have thought of writing the article I wrote.
February 11, 2009 at 11:00 pm
GilaMonster (2/11/2009)
Lynn Pettis (2/11/2009)
Any hints on He who will remain unnamed? Is it someone I've "spent time" trying to help in the recent past?I can think of a couple that fit that, none of whom I'm willing to help anymore.
One has a habit of wanting us to do his work
One's asking advanced (or way-out) questions will little foundation in fundamentals (Can't build a castle on the sand)
One's either posting useless answers (often a rephrase of an answer above) or exhibiting the 'deer-in-headlights' appearance.
Think, I do, one of the above I know. Angry like that, careful. Path to the dark side it is. Soon enough, learn that he may as well.
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