January 27, 2009 at 9:48 am
Bob Hovious (1/27/2009)
One more post towards 1000.... and close to the original topic here. How many people get annoyed by people who cut and paste data rather than giving a script to create the temp table(s)? It's better than nothing at all, but....
First time's ok. Second offenders should be tied to a chair in front of JM's offal launcher.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
January 27, 2009 at 9:50 am
Bob Hovious (1/27/2009)
One more post towards 1000.... and close to the original topic here. How many people get annoyed by people who cut and paste data rather than giving a script to create the temp table(s)? It's better than nothing at all, but....
Meh. If I have time and enthusiasm, I format it, insert it and test. If I don't, I move on.
How about people that just post a block of code in answer to a question, with no comments, explanations or anything else?
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 27, 2009 at 9:52 am
I don't mind cut and paste, but if you have me create a table(s), include a drop table(s) at the bottom.
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January 27, 2009 at 9:58 am
In cases where the OP is unwilling to contribute to his own success, it might be tempting to reply:
OK, if you want me to read your mind, you have to move a little closer to your computer. That's it, yes, just a little closer... OK, now stay that way and think about your problem until you receive my next post with your solution.
January 27, 2009 at 9:58 am
GilaMonster (1/27/2009)
Bob Hovious (1/27/2009)
One more post towards 1000.... and close to the original topic here. How many people get annoyed by people who cut and paste data rather than giving a script to create the temp table(s)? It's better than nothing at all, but....Meh. If I have time and enthusiasm, I format it, insert it and test. If I don't, I move on.
How about people that just post a block of code in answer to a question, with no comments, explanations or anything else?
How about the OP's that post their 300 line unformatted SQL code and expect you to figure out what is going on in the code? Yes, there have been times I took the time to reformat code, but after a while you just stop doing it. If they can't take the time to make it readable (and there are formatting tools out there) why should we?
I'll be honest, I have posted code with no comments, but usually the code posted is so simple any comment may just be, does this work?
January 27, 2009 at 9:59 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/27/2009)
Grant, that was a cheap post, course, I probably have a few as well.Lynn has a good point. Writing coherently, even giving someone a hint on what would make more sense (please spell out you), can help calm someone down, show them that you're not picking on them, but trying to help, can go a long way towards improving the posts.
I need to keep that in mind to specifically answer people in a calmer manner when they're writing a mile a minute and help them in more ways than just the technical.
May have been. Only worth a point anyway.
As to writing coherently, I have a tendency to be thinking more about what I want to say rather than precisely how to say it. I've gone back and read posts where I've left out words or left horrible spelling errors, but the technical information was there in a readable and accurate form (less said about the ones where the information was less than accurate the better). I'm not that concerned that a copy of Strunk & White's be open in front of everyone as they post here than that there is an honest effort to communicate accurately.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 27, 2009 at 10:02 am
Lynn Pettis (1/27/2009)
How about the OP's that post their 300 line unformatted SQL code and expect you to figure out what is going on in the code? Yes, there have been times I took the time to reformat code, but after a while you just stop doing it. If they can't take the time to make it readable (and there are formatting tools out there) why should we?I'll be honest, I have posted code with no comments, but usually the code posted is so simple any comment may just be, does this work?
Another reason to get a copy of Red Gate's SQL Prompt. It'll lay out the offensive code quick as can be, plus, if there are syntax errors you can catch those too.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 27, 2009 at 10:03 am
GilaMonster (1/27/2009)
Bob Hovious (1/27/2009)
One more post towards 1000.... and close to the original topic here. How many people get annoyed by people who cut and paste data rather than giving a script to create the temp table(s)? It's better than nothing at all, but....How about people that just post a block of code in answer to a question, with no comments, explanations or anything else?
Guilty as charged, m'lud, but I try to keep it to simple stuff in the hope that it's self-explanatory.
Where an explanation is really required, then posting only code is next to useless, it's best not to post at all.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
January 27, 2009 at 10:10 am
Grant Fritchey (1/27/2009)
As to writing coherently, I have a tendency to be thinking more about what I want to say rather than precisely how to say it. I've gone back and read posts where I've left out words or left horrible spelling errors, but the technical information was there in a readable and accurate form (less said about the ones where the information was less than accurate the better). I'm not that concerned that a copy of Strunk & White's be open in front of everyone as they post here than that there is an honest effort to communicate accurately.
When it's in front of you in black and white, and it's from a source you know you can rely on, a typo here or there isn't relevant.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
January 27, 2009 at 10:20 am
Steve Jones - Editor (1/27/2009)
I don't mind cut and paste, but if you have me create a table(s), include a drop table(s) at the bottom.
That's why I use tempDB for running code someone posted. Drop or no drop, the tables are all gone after a restart.
Lynn Pettis (1/27/2009)
How about the OP's that post their 300 line unformatted SQL code and expect you to figure out what is going on in the code?
4 words. No way in hell. Past about 20 lines my eyes just glaze over.
Chris Morris (1/27/2009)
Guilty as charged, m'lud, but I try to keep it to simple stuff in the hope that it's self-explanatory.
Likewise. I'll post 1 line queries when the question is something like "How do I get the username of the person running the query" I didn't mean 3 or 4 lines of code that is a complete answer to the question. More the cases where someone pastes 40 or so lines of unformatted, uncommented, unexplained code.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 27, 2009 at 10:21 am
Grant Fritchey (1/27/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (1/27/2009)
Grant, that was a cheap post, course, I probably have a few as well.Lynn has a good point. Writing coherently, even giving someone a hint on what would make more sense (please spell out you), can help calm someone down, show them that you're not picking on them, but trying to help, can go a long way towards improving the posts.
I need to keep that in mind to specifically answer people in a calmer manner when they're writing a mile a minute and help them in more ways than just the technical.
May have been. Only worth a point anyway.
As to writing coherently, I have a tendency to be thinking more about what I want to say rather than precisely how to say it. I've gone back and read posts where I've left out words or left horrible spelling errors, but the technical information was there in a readable and accurate form (less said about the ones where the information was less than accurate the better). I'm not that concerned that a copy of Strunk & White's be open in front of everyone as they post here than that there is an honest effort to communicate accurately.
hmmm, copy of Strunk & White's I have not.
When I made the comment about writing coherently, I didn't mean it had to be 100% grammatically correct, heck I know mine aren't always. I have also gone back and seen that I had left out words or misspelled some, or used the properly spelled but wrong word (to, too, two as an example). Depending on the post, I have actually gone back in and edited those posts so that if others came along later it might make more sense than it did before.
How many times have we tried to help people whose writing looks like text messages with many missing letters and short cuts.
I do realize that there are many people on this site for whom English (or better stated, American English) isn't their first or even second language. They are hard to follow, and with them it becomes even more important to write clearly in response, else things could be misinterpreted.
January 27, 2009 at 11:38 am
One other reason no one on this thread has mentioned is that SSC has become a victim of its own success. The first 10,000 members were probably pretty savvy about database work. As a result their questions were well-formed and genuinely challenging.
Now, as the membership approaches a million members, the average quality and experience of members is bound to decline. I wonder what the questions will be like when SSC has three million members...
To expand on an idea in an earlier post, I think a lot of businesses now have people trying to do SQL Server work by themselves. Either they are upgrading from Access or the database work is just one of many jobs they are responsible for. But working by themselves, they don't get the mentoring that is available in a place with multiple DBAs or IT personnel. In such an environment simple questions and basic tasks are answered or demonstrated. When you are by yourself the stupid questions don't get headed off by more experienced coworkers.
Lastly, I used to do a lot T-SQL training and am currently training someone as DBA. The first step was convincing people that the help documentation was actually worthwhile. You may recall that in the '90s the documentation for most software products was so bad that it was pointless to go to it with questions. People got out of the habit of even looking there for information.
BoL is a great resource. After eight years of using it, I am still impressed by its completeness, clarity of writing, and brevity. That said, it is difficult for new DBA's to use because of the required vocabulary. The DBA I am training asks about concepts and terms almost every day as he reads through BoL.
In any case, as a newbie to this site, I do want to thank all you guys for the great articles and comments in the forums.
January 27, 2009 at 11:44 am
Steve, I'm not sure how we would move the performance stuff to another thread. Copy and paste? Or should I copy and paste it into Word and send it to you as an article, done up as a dialogue? (Phil Phactor may get after me for stealing his style if I make it too interesting in that format!)
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January 27, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Okay Gurus, time for a shameless plug. How about getting out there and reading my article. You're the ones I would really like some feedback from regarding the subject matter, process, etc. Cardinal Moden has already read it, even though he didn't get a chance to test the code himself, since I sent it to him first for his feedback, and I did incorporate the suggestions he made into the product now proudly displayed at the top of the articles today.
End of shameless plug...
January 28, 2009 at 1:18 am
Today I'm delighted to see that the article which annoyed me with bad grammar and lack of spell checking has been pulled for plagiarism.
The original was written in good english so is it a new attempt to disguise plagiarism with bad grammar and spelling to confuse comparison software??
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