March 19, 2010 at 1:44 pm
LOL I lost another point. 🙂
I enjoy QOD and think it is a good learning tool. The idea of points makes it competitive and sometimes taken too seriously IMO.
March 19, 2010 at 2:30 pm
petertrast (3/19/2010)
Well said. If anyone besides the submitter is responsible, it would be BOL (Microsoft indirectly) and the forum moderator (sorry Steve :-D). The person answering can only bring value to the discussion, but how can we make sure the answer is right? :blink: unless you mean that we contribute to getting the answer changed... so maybe the question should ask from highest to lowest who has the most responsibility to ensure answer correctness.1. Submitter
2. BOL? Microsoft (IF the question comes out of BOL material)
3a. Steve, after he reviews the responses by
3b. The answerers
4. Bill Gates (just because I wanted to put his name in the forum even if he is no longer CEO and just the chairman) 😉
I'm sorry Steve Jones my last QotD said unusable for SSC and I have it deleted. It was for Humour section and I'm too lazy to write it again.
One of the answers was similar to your 4th. 😀
March 19, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (3/19/2010)
A great discussion, and I'll weigh in here on this question and topic. First, I disagree with John in that I think I bear some responsibility for the questions and answers. I do try to check them for accuracy, and sometimes I fail. There are times that I look at code instead of running it, and if it appears to be OK, I have let it go. I am trying to be better about verifying the code shown....
Thank you for your work
March 19, 2010 at 2:59 pm
brdudley (3/19/2010)
I'm sensing a loophole if we all just cooperate. Since, by the answer, we have been granted responsibility for the correctness of the answer, we ought to all agree that the question is based more on opinion and really a seed question for discussion. As such, all responses given are correct and points should be rewarded to everyone.
People should be aware that they get points for posting in the forums too: so if you answer a question, find that your answer is (claimed to be) wrong, and join the discussion and put your case you get points. I see no reason to award points to people who get the (claimed to be) wrong answer but don't join the discussion, which is what you appear to be suggesting.
Anyone who has been around looking at QOTD discussions, reading Steve's editorials, and participating in this community of people with an interest in SQLServer for any length of time should have got this one right. It's all about providing a learning resource consisting of articles (by experts and by non-experts), a fun quizz (QOTD), and lots of discussion forums - and the quizz would not be a learning resource if it did not successfully drive forum activity, ie if members of the community did not participate in the discussions and air their disagreements with answers, and their clarifications, and their queries about why the right answer is right. So the community members who see a question and its answer and have something useful to say about it do have a responsability, as members of the community, to say it. That a quarter of the respondents do date think that the person who supplies the question and answer has no responsability for correctness is, frankly, appalling. I think it's clear that there is no panel of experts. It's also clear that completely vetting all questions, answers and explanations and getting rid of all errors before publication would be an extremely large task and would not contribute much (if anything it might actually have a negative effect, since any presumption that the answers possessed eminent authority leave no room for discussion) to the usefulness of QOTD. And MS is not a member of the SQL Server users community (although some individual MS employees may be) and has no responsability for anything here (but I wish it would make BOL even more useful than it already is by better indexing, fixing the odd error, and better cross-referencing: why on earth doesn't the alter database set documentaion either tell us about all the restricions on its use with Model or include a link to the description of Model where they all are and remove the partial data from the alter database page, for example).
Tom
March 19, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Tom.Thomson (3/19/2010)
That a quarter of the respondents do date think that the person who supplies the question and answer has no responsability for correctness is, frankly, appalling.
To be fair, please consider that apparently some people who answered earlier today didn't realize that they could choose multiple answers. With that assumption, it would be reasonable to place utlimate responsibility for QOD answer correctness on the site (Steve or the mythical review panel). Steve has since updated the text to add the instruction "select all that apply."
March 19, 2010 at 3:44 pm
john.arnott (3/19/2010)
Tom.Thomson (3/19/2010)
That a quarter of the respondents do date think that the person who supplies the question and answer has no responsability for correctness is, frankly, appalling.To be fair, please consider that apparently some people who answered earlier today didn't realize that they could choose multiple answers. With that assumption, it would be reasonable to place utlimate responsibility for QOD answer correctness on the site (Steve or the mythical review panel). Steve has since updated the text to add the instruction "select all that apply."
For the sake of argument's sake 😀
Even a "select all that apply" does not require that there be more than one answer. It is one of those things used by test makers to ensure you are paying attention. In college and on certification exams - it was frequently seen to mean "only one answer."
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 19, 2010 at 3:57 pm
I think it's a great question.
Not because I've got it right (I didn't).
But it started a discussion on what we think about the QotD responsibilities in general. Instead of just starting a thread, where we "just" would have added our opinion we now have something to "fight for": ONE POINT 😀
That actually add some more enthusiasm, I'd say.
I don't think Steve could be held responsible, since the question refers to another person.
I just reviewed the TermsofUse:
1.3 We accept no obligation to monitor the use of the Site.
I would read into it, that Steve cannot be blamed, since he's representing the site owners.
3.2 If you contribute to the Site, you must take all reasonable care to ensure that your contributions are:
(a) accurate in all material respects and not misleading;
My interpretation would be that the submitter is responsible. If MS is quoted, it's quoted by the submitter, leading to the above rule to be applied again.
To be fair: it's really hard to fulfill rule 3.2.a each and every time. But that's the point where the community needs to play its role: if the question a/o answers are misleading or provable wrong, we need to make others aware of it. I don't think that it is required for spelling and grammar as long as it is "readable" (my ESL status might strongly influence that opinion though...)
Just keep one thing in mind: it's not all about points. I participate in QotD to see if I come to the same conclusion as the submitter and if this is supported by the community. Nothing more. But nothing less either.
March 19, 2010 at 9:38 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (3/19/2010)
I'll award back points later for everyone on this one since it's not really a fair question, but thanks for all the comments.
That would be nice and all - not sure it is necessary.
Agreed. It is only one point after all. Well worth sacrificing that for the quality of the discussion.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
March 20, 2010 at 12:05 am
Paul White NZ (3/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/19/2010)
I'll award back points later for everyone on this one since it's not really a fair question, but thanks for all the comments.
That would be nice and all - not sure it is necessary.
Agreed. It is only one point after all. Well worth sacrificing that for the quality of the discussion.
And I think that any that were truly interested in the topic contributed quite nicely to the discussion and thus earned well more points than the point from the question alone.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 20, 2010 at 8:42 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/20/2010)
Paul White NZ (3/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/19/2010)
I'll award back points later for everyone on this one since it's not really a fair question, but thanks for all the comments.
That would be nice and all - not sure it is necessary.
Agreed. It is only one point after all. Well worth sacrificing that for the quality of the discussion.
And I think that any that were truly interested in the topic contributed quite nicely to the discussion and thus earned well more points than the point from the question alone.
And that is the reason that this forum is the only reason I visit every day. Lively, well-informed discussion is worth much more than the "points" we get for answering the question right. I have learned ten times more here in my first few weeks than I have in all other SQL forums in the last two years. I only wish it had not taken so long to find this site and start taking advantage of the learning opportunities...
Peter Trast
Microsoft Certified ...(insert many literal strings here)
Microsoft Design Architect with Alexander Open Systems
March 20, 2010 at 9:36 am
petertrast (3/20/2010)
And that is the reason that this forum is the only reason I visit every day. Lively, well-informed discussion is worth much more than the "points" we get for answering the question right. I have learned ten times more here in my first few weeks than I have in all other SQL forums in the last two years. I only wish it had not taken so long to find this site and start taking advantage of the learning opportunities...
Welcome to the community.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 21, 2010 at 8:14 am
MS is responsible for creating adequate documentation so the person answering the question can answer the question accurately
The panel I threw in because it seems all the other answers are correct and sometimes these questions contain what I call "the basic truths" where the question has answers that are all correct.
I don't know how to get back to the answers that were in the original question but here is my guess at what the other three were...
Steve can give us credit if he thinks it a good call, so he answers to the accuracy and is thus ultimately responsible for the accuracy of the answers.
The person who submits the original question - well, of course, that person is responsible for accuracy.
AND FINALLY-we who read and answer the question, through our due diligence are definitely responsible and thus, the existence of this forum...
So, yes, I think all are correct (outside of the Panel... I am just guessing that these answers don't appear on the site without some sort of review prior to them showing up here).
Jamie
March 21, 2010 at 9:57 am
My answer to the qustion was "the writer of the question", but i agree that the reader also have a responibility.
I think it was a Good question, and i thank everone for their guts to publish questions, because they are judged very Hard sometimes.
Håkan Winther
SQL service Nordic AB
/Håkan Winther
MCITP:Database Developer 2008
MCTS: SQL Server 2008, Implementation and Maintenance
MCSE: Data Platform
March 22, 2010 at 4:33 am
Hi I joined the party late. Sorry for that. First the question was great. Secondly who is "RESPONSIBLE" to correct this question. WE ALL OF US RESPONSIBLE?
Hey guys this is a great community but anybody thought who made this community "GREAT"? Is it Steve or Jeff Moden or GilaMonster or Paul white or Grumpy DBA or Rufio (Sorry for others for not mentioning your names :-P)? No it is all of us. We all are responsible. In a community one can make a mistake but others will immediately rectify him. This makes a community great. I found if a question is 'wrong' we all jump into it to find out the error, we Gooooooogle it and we all learn MORE than a correct question. Mistakes only makes us perfect. I would suggest atleast 1 wrong question (Every Friday - to get R&D time more) every week to make us learn more. 🙂 We will later issue a HOTFIX (Like Microsoft) for these BUG questions.
I will suggest Steve to provide points (As incentive) to the user who will prove a question is wrong (With prove documents).
March 22, 2010 at 4:38 am
Hi I joined the party late. Sorry for that. First the question was great. Secondly who is "RESPONSIBLE" to correct this question. WE ALL OF US RESPONSIBLE?
I have a slightly different take - I said all the answers are correct - but I agree definitely with the statement above from Paul.
Jamie
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