July 17, 2014 at 4:07 pm
podmate (7/17/2014)
I am one of the people who do not like access.I have had too many experiences with poorly built access (and FileMaker Pro) 'applications' that I never want to have to deal with access (or FMP) again.
I can't even count the number of times I have had to put my foot down and tell a client they could not use access as a back end for a busy web site. I could have made a lot of money by building what they wanted and then fixing it later for $$$, but I would rather not hamstring myself or my clients in the first place.
Another nail in the coffin is that I spent many years in the Unix world and most of that time was spent scripting out Oracle/MySQL DB's and ETL processes.
I tend to view any kind of wysiwyg application as either a learning tool to be quickly discarded or a crutch.
Now that I am building ETL apps in SSIS, I long for the days when I could script out my ETL process and did not have to deal with the limitations of a wysiwyg app.
Yeah, I know. Get off my lawn and all that.
I am sure there are some really good access apps that have been developed, I just have not knowingly used them.
Regarding SSIS, there are situations where I'll implement all my ETL as parameter and expression driven T-SQL tasks and just rely on Control Flow to tie all the workflow and auditing together. One reason is client specific schemas and column definitions, and the Data Flow tasks can be too rigid. The problem with WYSIWYG is that we can't see everything, unless we dig around inside all the dialogs and often times what options we're given are limited.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 17, 2014 at 5:09 pm
I completely agree with you Andy. Access does a lot of really great things. database, queries, forms, macros, VBA. I have built many data marts for smaller companies with Access. I have also built many for larger companies and just used sql server as the backend. Most technical people i have known scoff at access like it has no use. I worked on Oracle for many years and access does many of the same things just not at scale. if you really think about users and scale many systems are only used by a few people at a time. In many cases, things can be batched to accommodate users and/or performance. I am currently running two projects where Access and Sql Server and the backend combined with a variety of presentation options.
Anyway, well said Andy.
July 17, 2014 at 5:37 pm
Tim Tafflinger (7/17/2014)
I love it! People in IT saying positive things about Access? Never thought I would see the day!....
& ArmenStein, this has been my experience too. Access can be a wonderful low cost solution!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
July 17, 2014 at 7:41 pm
Well my former job in a lower tier bank we had 27 stove piped systems. Everything pretty much ended up in accounting. So we built an Access app that could translate from all the other apps in the acctg SW. Same for reporting the loans and such to the servicing companies. Then we had to get the mortgage system to the construction servicing system. And on and on. The choice of Access was made because we had the VBA suite and the SQL available as well.
And now the company I work for was bought out by our biggest competitor. So I built the conversion utility using Access in about 4 weeks. The back end on one package is Interbase. The one is a proprietary mod of the DBF standards. I had to have one of our app programmers to give me the files in a raw text format that I the convert to the import specs.
Plus then all the end users found multiple way to put in bad way to put in data. So I can easily mod the Access VBA to account for the bad data. Where if it was some sort compiled app then I would have to mod the code and then compile, and so on.
So I'm still a firm believer in using Access.
----------------
Jim P.
A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
July 17, 2014 at 9:49 pm
this is almost my story too! I agree with you.
July 17, 2014 at 11:42 pm
podmate (7/17/2014)
--Now that I am building ETL apps in SSIS, I long for the days when I could script out my ETL process and did not have to deal with the limitations of a wysiwyg app.
--
Have you investigated BIML?
If you haven't even tried to resolve your issue, please don't expect the hard-working volunteers here to waste their time providing links to answers which you could easily have found yourself.
July 18, 2014 at 2:04 am
I personally like MS Access. Its sweet spot is definitely complicated internal systems with limited distribution and users but that covers a great deal of systems.
I would prefer to use SQL Server as the back end and just use Access for UI design.
I also believe it is an excellent tool for teaching database design principles and UI design principles.
It is probably undervalued as a UI design tool.
July 18, 2014 at 2:58 am
I have very fond memories of MS Access (starting with 2.0 and ending with 2000). Working for an international insurance company, and in the days before the Internet really took off as a shop front for businesses, I developed and deployed underwriting and policy issuance applications to brokers, and a claims handling and payment solution for internal use. I also developed a claim logging application, fronting the Jet 4.0 database with VB. There was an invaluable two volume tome - Access 2000 Developers Handbook (Ken Getz, Paul Litwin, Mike Gilbert) - that really helped explore the possibilities of Access. And also a magical chapter - ASP over SQL Server. Goodbye MS Access, hello SQL Server.
July 18, 2014 at 4:20 am
I still use Access/DAO as a db for small one-off applications, working with a VB.Net front end. It is easy to install pretty much anywhere, I can compact in code, and I can mickey up reports and such if needed.
Tools for the job...
July 18, 2014 at 4:22 am
GoofyGuy (7/17/2014)
The pain goes well beyond these technical difficulties, because Access databases and their accompanying 'apps' are often written by people outside the IT department - meaning the business becomes increasingly reliant upon databases and applications which are not properly maintained, backed-up, or designed.
GoofyGuy (7/17/2014)
In my experience, the shadow IT groups got started the moment someone outside IT bought a copy of Access.
The problem I have with Access isn't Access itself, but the way in which non-IT types use it building their own data stores and 'apps': without any knowledge of good IT practises, nor IT oversight.
I strongly agree with this. I've worked in too many places that have relied upon hokey, home-made little "systems" built on Access which I've then been expected to troubleshoot when they went horribly wrong and the non-IT user has no idea. Sometimes there are several "systems" all linked together, and that can be pretty special :crazy:, especially when linked to a SQL database.
So often there is no proper security either, and the company in question is flouting several data protection laws. But yes, the problem lies with the users, not the application itself.
July 18, 2014 at 7:28 am
Eric M Russell (7/17/2014)[hrRegarding SSIS, there are situations where I'll implement all my ETL as parameter and expression driven T-SQL tasks and just rely on Control Flow to tie all the workflow and auditing together. One reason is client specific schemas and column definitions, and the Data Flow tasks can be too rigid. The problem with WYSIWYG is that we can't see everything, unless we dig around inside all the dialogs and often times what options we're given are limited.
I agree.
I make use of parameters and I try to limit SSIS to control flow only, but the darn program sometimes gets in the way.
July 18, 2014 at 8:02 am
Phil Parkin (7/17/2014)
podmate (7/17/2014)
--Now that I am building ETL apps in SSIS, I long for the days when I could script out my ETL process and did not have to deal with the limitations of a wysiwyg app.
--
Have you investigated BIML?
I just read through the BIML Stairway ( http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/stairway/100550/ ).
The author did a great job of introducing BIML and showing how it can be a useful tool.
I played with BIML a bit last night and it feels a lot like a band-aid.
Combining a wysiwyg tool with XML with SQL scripts/code with n level graphical dropdown lists just seems like MS trying to force their graphical only tool set mantra into a script based world. Not an optimal solution.
Although I am not very impressed with the implementation or user friendliness of BIML, it certainly seems to be a much more intelligent way for one to write complicated SSIS type packages as opposed to using only SSIS.
Thanks for pointing it out.
I am going to try and find a project at work that I can use BIML on.
July 18, 2014 at 11:46 am
I started my career as an underwriter in an insurance company, with the side job of maintaining the Access 2.0 database (with a VB front end). After about 6 months in production I told management we would need to do something soon, as performance was starting to deteriorate, and at an increasing speed. For months they denied it would ever be a problem as their "highly paid consultants" said it would work fine for at least 5 years at the rate the AS/400 had been increasing the number of policies.
What they did not forecast was that the new system could give out quotes in 1/5th the time, causing us to get a lot more customers (we tripled the number of quotes we could do in a day the first week after the switch). After getting one of the network engineer to prove to the rest why it was getting slower the CIO turned to me "ok Anders, looks like you are right. What do we do?" At that point I was 6 months out of college, had never seen a professional relational database engine in my life. "Well, I hear about this new product called Microsoft SQL Server, I think we should look at it"
And that is how I became a SQL DBA. So while I do not like Access, I do owe my career to it 😉
July 21, 2014 at 7:59 am
Access 1.0 was truly unstable but 1.1 resolved that. It is good for what it is intended and, like many things, is maligned for the results of inappropriate use.
Personally, I'd much rather upscale a solution based on Access than one based in Excel.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 21, 2014 at 8:05 am
Gary Varga (7/21/2014)
--Personally, I'd much rather upscale a solution based on Access than one based in Excel.
Let's see whether anyone takes the bait 😉
If you haven't even tried to resolve your issue, please don't expect the hard-working volunteers here to waste their time providing links to answers which you could easily have found yourself.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 113 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply