Stunned

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Stunned

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Shawn Richards Valued Member Points: 58 More actions · Answer 1

jmoney 69422 (8/28/2013)
Shawn Richards (8/28/2013)
To be honest I find this disgusting and have had first had accounts of this many times while working in a Tech Supply Company Support Department around the turn of the century. We had 3 very capable females.
If we had someone request a male technician specifically we would direct them to one of the females if they were available and if someone did not want to talk to a female after the initial service we would send them to a special extension which was in a bin at the back of the room with a phone wrapped in a towel.
We would all laugh when we heard the muffled ringer :).
When they rang back we would direct them back to a female. If they still had an issue they were directed to the manager which would explain that the only person with the right skills to help them at this time was a female and they could call back later if they wanted, if they opted to call back they went onto a register so the next time they called they would be directed to a female.
We seriously got 2 every week.
I worked there for 4 years and I know for some products they were actually the better technicians.
Yep the good old days when we everyone was so professional that we could afford to let customers go to the wastebasket. Many companies that had that mindset eventually went out of business. The more professional thing is to direct them to the person they wanted to work with. If the customer is paying, they get to dictate what their relationship with you will be. There are enough other companies out there that if you screw with a customer he not only can, but he will take his business elsewhere. But rest assured, you sure stood up for something. Don't forget to collect your unemployment check.

I understand where you are coming from but it was inline with the companies non-discrimination policy and the same company grossed over $10 billion by the second quarter of 2013 so they must be doing something right.

The only way to stamp out discrimination is to make a stand if we let a little through for whatever reasons then we have opened the gates to a flood.

JLMayes SSC Enthusiast Points: 146 More actions · Answer 2

Grant Fritchey (8/28/2013)
Koen Verbeeck (8/28/2013)
JLMayes (8/28/2013)
TravisDBA (8/28/2013)
Agreed, but let's make sure ALL the facts are uncovered first before calling anyone out. Otherwise, it just turns the whole situation into a witch hunt.:-D
You know who else were women?
Witches.
Off-topic: technically, men could also be witches. In Salem at least one men was convicted as a witch and put to death by putting a very big heavy stone on him (the correct term escapes my mind for the moment).
Giles Cory. He was pressed to death. They used a door and a series of stones. Nasty. In Salem, the others were hanged. There were several men.
Reverend George Burroughs (hanged)
Giles Cory (pressed)
George Jacobs (hanged)
John Proctor (hanged)
Wilmot Reed (hanged)
Samuel Wardwell (hanged)
John Willard (hanged)
The rest were women. A few of the women were reprieved or escaped. A couple avoided sentence by getting (or claiming to be) pregnant. A couple died in jail. All the rest were hanged.
Poor, brave, Mr. Cory. He was singled out because he stood mute rather than plea guilty or not guilty. It took two days.

Still...I bet a woman talked him into it.

BURN 'EM! BURN 'EM ALL!!

Miles Neale SSChampion Points: 13147 More actions · Answer 3

I can only hang my head and wonder who are these idiots who pretend to be wise but are foolish beyond belief?

Someone needs to call that person into account right there in public. I remember days past when a teacher stood and professed something that was wrong and one brave person stood and said no that is not right. He called the speaker down right there before a crowd. If that is what it takes to stop this mess then let it be me who stands and says no more!

Dang!

Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!

tammy.cravit Grasshopper Points: 18 More actions · Answer 4

jmoney 69422 (8/28/2013)
But introducing the wrong female into an all-male team can have disastrous effects to the overall performance of the team, and introducing a second female can be even more destabilizing. In some cases, it is good to de-stabilize a team. In other cases, not so much.

But couldn't you equally write "introducing the wrong male into a team can have disastrous effects to the overall performance of the team"? I would argue - as presently the only female in a small, close-knit, and highly effective DBA team - that the risk comes from personality match and not from gender per se. And I would argue that introducing a new person of either gender into an existing team has the potential to destabilize the team.

When my company interviews a new prospective team member, we absolutely pay attention to whether that person is a good fit both with the dynamics of the team which s/he will be joining and with the values and culture of our company. But this is so whether the candidate is male or female, and whether the dominant gender in the team is male or female. (We have both kinds of teams here).

Tammy

Charles Kincaid SSChampion Points: 13593 More actions · Answer 5

Shawn Richards (8/28/2013)
To be honest I find this disgusting and have had first had accounts of this many times while working in a Tech Supply Company Support Department around the turn of the century. ...

Wait, what? Oh, the turn to the 21st century.

Never mind.

ATBCharles Kincaid

Jim P. SSCrazy Eights Points: 8725 More actions · Answer 6

tammy.cravit (8/28/2013)
But couldn't you equally write "introducing the wrong male into a team can have disastrous effects to the overall performance of the team"? I would argue - as presently the only female in a small, close-knit, and highly effective DBA team - that the risk comes from personality match and not from gender per se. And I would argue that introducing a new person of either gender into an existing team has the potential to destabilize the team.
When my company interviews a new prospective team member, we absolutely pay attention to whether that person is a good fit both with the dynamics of the team which s/he will be joining and with the values and culture of our company. But this is so whether the candidate is male or female, and whether the dominant gender in the team is male or female. (We have both kinds of teams here).
Tammy

I've always been the single DBA in a team. But the team is a support desk or the network admin team or the dev team.

So your point is very valid. Each team member has a strength or weakness. I quite frankly never want to talk to end-users. And management realizes and accommodates that. But a team member male or female that deforms, distorts, or destroys the team is worthless regardless of sex.

----------------
Jim P.

A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281324 More actions · Answer 7

A user group leader responded to an inquiry with: "We don't want female speakers. Our users only want to hear technical content."
First, what the <insert your own expression here>? Second, seriously? Third, WTF? I'm actually stunned that in 2013 we have someone that doesn't believe that female speakers can deliver technical content.

Wow - stunning but not necessarily surprising.

Maybe the group will change their tune and maybe the leader will change his tune.

On a different note, I'll let the offendee speak at my group. Send her my way and I will schedule her.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Orlando Colamatteo SSC Guru Points: 182276 More actions · Answer 8

This type of comment is not surprising at all. Yes prejudice still exists and no it is not going to go away anytime soon. Thanks for shedding some light on the incident Steve. The only way to reduce this type of behavior is to deter those that exhibit it by not tolerating it, calling it out, and showing the offender a more enlightened way. I think if that person stumbles upon this thread and reads some of the comments they'll be a better person for it.

There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato

ChrisM@Work SSC Guru Points: 186127 More actions · Answer 9

Grant Fritchey (8/28/2013)
Koen Verbeeck (8/28/2013)
JLMayes (8/28/2013)
TravisDBA (8/28/2013)
Agreed, but let's make sure ALL the facts are uncovered first before calling anyone out. Otherwise, it just turns the whole situation into a witch hunt.:-D
You know who else were women?
Witches.
Off-topic: technically, men could also be witches. In Salem at least one men was convicted as a witch and put to death by putting a very big heavy stone on him (the correct term escapes my mind for the moment).
Giles Cory. He was pressed to death. They used a door and a series of stones....

I had a flatmate like that once.

^{“Write the query the simplest way. If through testing it becomes clear that the performance is inadequate, consider alternative query forms.” - Gail Shaw}

For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden

TravisDBA SSCoach Points: 15780 More actions · Answer 10

No JL, do you? A "witch hunt" does not refer to any specific gender in modern times. Maybe you need to look up the term in the dictionary.com before you just start calling people you don't even know sexists.:-D

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"

JLMayes SSC Enthusiast Points: 146 More actions · Answer 11

TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
No JL, do you? A "witch hunt" does not refer to any specific gender in modern times. Maybe you need to look up the term in the dictionary.com before you just start calling people you don't even know sexists.:-D

😀

Dude...really? I doubt I could have made this any more obviously a joke if I'd painted a clown face on it.

Wasn't calling you a sexist.

But I will mock you for using dictionary.com.

Merriam-Webster ROOLZ!

TravisDBA SSCoach Points: 15780 More actions · Answer 12

JLMayes (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
No JL, do you? A "witch hunt" does not refer to any specific gender in modern times. Maybe you need to look up the term in the dictionary.com before you just start calling people you don't even know sexists.:-D
😀
Dude...really? I doubt I could have made this any more obviously a joke if I'd painted a clown face on it.
Wasn't calling you a sexist.
But I will mock you for using dictionary.com.
Merriam-Webster ROOLZ!

Your actual original reply post to me was this:

"You know who else were women?

Witches.

Game, set, and match, Sexists. "

I was not under the understanding from that response that you were joking.

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"

Dalkeith Hall of Fame Points: 3684 More actions · Answer 13

Dalkeith

Hall of Fame

Points: 3684

August 29, 2013 at 8:10 am

#1646002

Oh boy - flat earthers still exist.

JLMayes SSC Enthusiast Points: 146 More actions · Answer 14

TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
JLMayes (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
No JL, do you? A "witch hunt" does not refer to any specific gender in modern times. Maybe you need to look up the term in the dictionary.com before you just start calling people you don't even know sexists.:-D
😀
Dude...really? I doubt I could have made this any more obviously a joke if I'd painted a clown face on it.
Wasn't calling you a sexist.
But I will mock you for using dictionary.com.
Merriam-Webster ROOLZ!
Your actual original reply post to me was this:
"You know who else were women?
Witches.
Game, set, and match, Sexists. "
I was not under the understanding from that response that you were joking.

Dang...I shoulda used grease paint.

^

|

Also a joke

tammy.cravit Grasshopper Points: 18 More actions · Answer 15

Jim P. (8/28/2013)
But a team member male or female that deforms, distorts, or destroys the team is worthless regardless of sex.

I would agree with this statement for the most part, but with one qualification. My personal belief (borne out by my experience to date) is that with rare exception, when "a team member...deforms, distorts, or destroys the team", I see that as a failure of (and the responsibility of) the team's management.

Yes, there are cases where a person's attitude or behavior is simply inappropriate to the team, and yes, there are cases where a given individual is so incapable of working in a team setting that they shouldn't be hired. Outside of those cases, though, I think it's the job of the manager to create that cohesiveness, and to ensure that her/his team functions together effectively. If bringing a new person into a team destroys the team, that's a sign to me that the team isn't being managed effectively.

The reality is that part of being a professional, at least to me, is learning to work with the people you have to work with, and learning to manage conflicts when they arise. And part of being a manager, at least to me, is fostering an environment among and within teams where that can happen. If a new person can be allowed to destroy a team, I see that as a failure of the whole team, and of the team's manager, and not as the sole fault of the new person.

But, back to the original topic, I see that as being true in ANY team, regardless of the gender, race, religion, or other characteristics of the individual team members.

Tammy